As we all know, Christine is a woman with many questions! What's the appeal of a dramatic view? Do clouds look the same from above and below? What does lightning look like from an airplane? Can you tell if you're being watched by an animal? Or through a camera? This week, Christine lets loose with her best view-related queries. But the question remains: Can JJ keep up?!
As we all know, Christine is a woman with many questions! What's the appeal of a dramatic view? Do clouds look the same from above and below? What does lightning look like from an airplane? Can you tell if you're being watched by an animal? Or through a camera? This week, Christine lets loose with her best view-related queries. But the question remains: Can JJ keep up?!
Talk description to me with Christine Malec and JJ Hunt.
Christine Malec:Hi, I'm Christine Malec.
JJ Hunt:And I'm JJ Hunt. This is talk description to me where the visuals of current events and the world around us get hashed out in description rich conversations
Christine Malec:The idea for this episode came from a friend of mine who is sighted and she moved into a 15th floor apartment and one of the things she loves about it is the view. And one day we were talking about birds. And she said, I get to see the birds from above, and which immediately I was interested. And so she she sees different flight patterns and different coloring as well. And so it got me thinking about the different perspectives from which sighted people see stuff and what that's like. And so this episode is going to be very chatty and conversational. So in fact, JJ, you have no notes. Yeah, nothing. Sit back and just grab the popcorn and so very conversational field, because I have a lot of specific questions about different aspects of perspective and the view from which things are seen and how that affects it. And so what is the appeal in a general sense? What's the appeal of being on a tall building and looking down or having a good view?
JJ Hunt:It's funny, having a view is so incredibly important to some people. My mother in law is one of these people where wherever you go in the world, whatever you do, it doesn't matter. If you're, you know, just you go to a cottage for a weekend, or you're at a restaurant, the first thing she asks is, "what was the view?" It's the most important thing to her. And I mean, I'm sure some of it is comes goes back to the days when you need to view for security reasons, right? Like you need to be able to see what's around you to see if you're going to be attacked by the lions, tigers and bears Oh my but there's a scale, there's a perspective there. When you get to see the world around you and you get to get the lay of the land. Perhaps for sighted people might be a figuring out your place in that greater space. I'm seeing depth, especially these days, when we are so glued to screens, most of the things that sighted people are seeing are two feet in front of their face, we get no depth. And when you are seeing a view you are seeing out you're seeing horizons you are seeing beyond and I think that's just a more natural, that's that's what we've been evolved to, to like and appreciate. And so for those of us who spend time staring at screens to be out in a space where you get a view of things is coming it just it just works it feels right.
Christine Malec:Do you have the experience of in the natural world of seeing flying things from above either from an urban setting from a tall building or from a high hilltop or something?
JJ Hunt:I have had. I don't have it regularly, I live in a house not an apartment so I don't have that very often in living in the city. I'm not in those natural spaces as often as I'd like but I certainly have been in places like been in like Ireland for example, the cliffs of more, you know you're on the edge of a cliff and you see the sea birds down below and it is unusual, it puts you it flips flips your understanding it flips your perspective. And you'd same if you're in an airplane sometimes you're in an airplane and as you're going up in an airplane you are passing through different layers that are like okay, well now I'm at about a tall building height so I understand this oh now I'm getting a little higher now I'm at Mountain height wow that's a little things are getting pretty small down there and then you go above the clouds and you know to go to climb above things that you're used to seeing from below like trees or clouds or birds. It does it flips things and so there's the there's the aesthetic pleasure of that of seeing something pretty beautiful, like bird flight patterns or, or the you know the tufts of tree tops when you're you can see how lush and green they look like green cotton balls from above or even to see mountain ranges from above and you you can more easily see the separate mountain people and the valleys between that can be very pleasing. But again, it's also just like the fact that you're flipping it. And it's a new and it's different. It's a, you know, it makes you go, hmm. Quirky. That's, this is neat, you know?
Christine Malec:Yeah, it's fun. I wonder whether you've been in planes with your kids. And the reason I'm asking is that different perspective views are so easily attainable now at least on a screen. But I'm thinking about the first time you'd see it in the real world, like a sending in a plane. And if you can talk about it as an auto go, Yeah, it's really groovy. And the aesthetics are cool. And but for someone who's never had the experience of seeing it, such as a kid, have you witnessed that in your kids?
JJ Hunt:Absolutely. So when my kids were really young, and we got in a plane, they were excited to look out the window, because it was different, it was new, they wanted to soak it all up and look out the plane window. And that was really fun. And then they hit an age where they didn't care, what they were looking forward to, when we got into a plane was setting up their snacks, and getting to watch the TV because there's a little TV that's usually mounted right in front of your face, and maybe playing a video game on their phone. And I remember being on an airplane with my kids when they were, you know, somewhere like six or nine or something. And I was really, I'm still excited looking out the window. I love that. And I looked over and my kids were totally plugged into devices. And I got really annoyed. And Lois had to be like, No, come back. It'll be okay, I'll come back. And in fact, it was a few years later, we were flying to visit some family in Vancouver, and we were flying over the Rockies. And that was the one time I said sorry, you're you're putting your devices down, you were flying over what looks like Middle Earth like it's flying over a mountain range, like the Rockies is just, again, the scale of it is incredible to see all of the peaks and valleys that carpet, the land for, you know, what looks like hundreds of miles in every direction, as far as you can see. And you can see a lot because you're so high as like you got to put down, you know, whatever silly video game you're playing, or whatever nothing can possibly compare to this. And so they indulged me, they looked at their windows, and he said a few nice things and then went back to their devices. But it's come back now that they're a little bit older, they do start they are starting to appreciate, again, how amazing it is to be what a privilege it is to be in a place where we're kind of not supposed to be and and you know, to get that perspective, they are starting to understand that that is a privilege, and that they should, they should enjoy it while while they can.
Christine Malec:Obviously you flown out of Pearson Airport in Toronto pretty often. So I wonder about the familiarity as you ascend from a place, you know, well. Maybe I guess I wonder how high up would you have to be before you'd say, I don't know what that what I'm looking at?
JJ Hunt:Oh, good question. So when I'm flying out of a city that I know, like Toronto, I know very well, in fact, so well, that one of the pleasures When you're returning is to be able to see the landscape and pick out specific buildings, I used to live very close to High Park, which is a great big green space. And so it was easily identifiable from the air. And what I really loved to do when we were coming into Toronto was when that green space came into view, I could work my way along the main roads to find basically my house. I couldn't necessarily see my exact house, but I could go from the great big green space that was the park along the pretty wide and busy thoroughfare that was Bloor Street. And then I could I knew that one street past me was a curving street. So if I just moved my site one by so you can start to see that. And I love doing that when I would fly back into Toronto, but when you're leaving, you're exiting a space. And at first everything just looks like I said, like you're looking at it from you know from a tall building. And that's something that are that are our brains. If you're sighted, understand, you just get that and things look kind of cute, like model stuff like oh, look, it looks like a little, you know, dinky cars and little tough to trees and whatnot. And then when you get higher and higher, you're also leaving the city. And so if you're flying north, you're you're leaving the city scape and you're moving into farmland and that's when you get to see the quilt effect of all of the different fields. This patchwork in depending on where you are sometimes that patchwork is really uniform. It looks like a very organized quilt, and then in some parts of the world doesn't look like that at all. It's a little bit Some pieces here and there, if you're flying over farmland and where there's tiered farming, say somewhere like, in the mountains in Vietnam, then you get to see these, these very narrow tears of of farm field that are just carved out of the sides of mountains. So you they're only, you know, a dozen feet wide, and then you drop down another 10 feet, and then there's a little patch there, and then another 10 feet. So they're like, these ribbons, these concentric ribbons are farm fields, so different landscapes, from different heights, you know, present themselves in different ways. It's kind of fun, as you're, as you're leaving and getting higher and higher, like, what's recognizable, what's not, and it's not really until you get like up to the clouds or above the clouds, and you can't see the ground all the way up, you can, you can usually make things out even like boats in the boats in the ocean, you can see, if you see a big, you know, tanker or something like that in the ocean, or on one of the great lakes, you know, it might just be look like a grain of rice from that height. But because of the context, you know that that's a ship.
Christine Malec:Wow. If you were flying into Toronto, and you were still coming... I know, there's a sort of foreshortening effect so you wouldn't really see things in profile like we're used to, but what are some of the urban landmarks that would stick out for you as you're flying in.
JJ Hunt:So as you're coming in, you're going to get the shoreline depending on what direction you're coming in from. But if you're coming from the south, you're going to get the shoreline. So you get the clear cut off of water and land that's usually very, very clear. And then you're, as you get closer, or you're getting the if you're coming from the north, and you've got the fields and you're getting that it's not as straightforward to cut off. But the blending from farm fields into suburbs in the suburbs from above look quite different than the city because the city is a hodgepodge. And the suburbs tend to be more uniform. And the street patterns are different, which is really clear from above street patterns in a lot of cities are grid like and street patterns in a lot of suburbs are not necessarily like a lot of the residential areas have curly Q streets and, and more dead ends and, and just different kind of development patterns that are much more those are clear from above, you wouldn't necessarily feel that if you're walking around on the ground. So you're seeing those types of things if you're coming from the north. And then in Toronto, you're seeing the downtown core, the young street strip, which is lined with high rise condos and high rise office buildings as it gets closer to downtown. And then of course, the CN Tower, which is so clearly identifiable. I always say the CN tower looks like a large knitting needle, that first skewered a plum, and then above that, and all of and that's the that's what the CN tower looks like. And it's huge it is so tall. So it's, you know, clearly identifiable to and then you get the then you get the parks, right you get the High Park, like I mentioned, a great big square in the West End. And in the East End, there's the there's the Don Valley, this ribbon of green that cuts all the way through the city that goes from basically the Lakeshore, all the way north up to you know, up to the burbs and beyond. So, those are kinds of the things that you're seeing as you as you approach Toronto.
Christine Malec:Do clouds look the same from above as from below.
JJ Hunt:I'm going to get some images because I my first instinct is to say they are fluffing from above it looks like a bed of cotton balls and like as I'm gonna get dreamy about it. Ha ha!
Christine Malec:That's Okay!
JJ Hunt:I should probably get some images up so that I'm sure... PAUSE.... Yeah, sigh. It looks like sheets of a cotton balls. Like it's just it's dreamy. It really is. And of course there are different kinds of clouds, right. And sometimes it's a solid blanket like it is always amazing to me how that clouds are not solid. One of my very early memories when I was in grade two second grade living in California, and my dad was driving me up into the mountains and my brother, my little brother, who was just in preschool at the time, was so excited because we were going to drive into the clouds that had been the promise from my dad, we were going to be so high we would drive into the clouds. We had a station wagon at the time my brother and I would were allowed to lie down in the back of the station wagon, clinging to the rough industrial carpet that was on the back of the station wagon. As we went higher and higher. My dad would swerve the car a little bit and we'd roll from side to side and we finally got to the top of the mountain and my dad said okay, we can get out and feel the clouds now. And I jumped out and it was misty and you couldn't see very far like you know barely in front of your hands because it was misty, but not close. God like it didn't, you didn't when you were in it, you didn't see these puff balls of cotton that you would see from an airplane, you didn't see that little drawing version of clouds. And my brother jumps out of the car and all he feels is missed. Oh, and all he sees is this kind of, you know, the softening of the air, it didn't look like what he was expecting. And he was so distraught, he was so upset and disappointed at this moment that he like, totally sad Charlie Browned it back to the car head hung, didn't get in the back back he sat down in his seat becaise the magic had been lost.
Christine Malec:Oh the disillusionment!
JJ Hunt:Yeah. But because from an airplane, honestly, it does. They, if it's a thick blanket of clouds, it looks they look solid, they look like cotton balls. And that moment, when you're going in, if you're, you know, whether you're entering from below or above, you go from being able to see out the window to not you cannot, it's just you're in the cloud and it's thick, and then you get out. And from that high, those clouds are thick enough to block your view you can't see past then. And then you get out above and suddenly, maybe the sun is shining again. And it's you know, glorious, or maybe there's a sunset that's still above the clouds. So the top of the clouds might be an orange color or a red color. And that's what the blanket looks like. But you can also see because you're so high up, you can see clouds at a distance that aren't close. So you get to see, like column clouds, or you get to see two clouds that look like they're coming together or, you know, or storms that are in a distance that aren't affecting you, but they can be seen from far away. So you do get access to two clouds that you you wouldn't get. Unless you're the only other place you'd get access to clouds like that as if you are in a mountain or you're on a mountain and you are see looking down a valley and and then maybe you're going to be in a position where you can see weather systems moving and that's pretty dramatic to see the cloud from a distance and, and rain teaming down that because the rain starts to look solid from a distance. And you can see the edge of the rain, which I always find quite magical. On, you know, on one side of that line, because it's from a distance, it looks clear, it is dry. And on the other side, it's raining it is that like, you know, again, that Charlie Brown cloud that follows you above and just rains directly on you, you can see that from a distance where she can't obviously when you're in a rainstorm, seeing the edge of it is that it's just not there.
Christine Malec:This is something that I've tussled with trying to conceptualize. So imagine you're not in a city. So you have a big vista, imagine you're on the edge of a lake. And people will say, "Oh, it's gonna I think it's gonna rain. I see the rain in the distance". And so when they say that, does it mean it's covering the hole 180 degrees of left to right, or is it a column or what's what's the visual experience of seeing that from a distance.
JJ Hunt:So sometimes, if you're really high and far away, sometimes you can see a full separate system that has, you can see both edges right and left side of a cloud. And you can see the rain coming down from that cloud alone. Sometimes if you're closer, like if you're on a lake or something like that, and you have access to just the sky, but you're not particularly high or particularly far away. What you can see is in the distance that the clouds are, are gray, and they're great in a different way than just being dark. They're gray, because there's there's a bit of movement in there. And there's a bit of mistiness to the look. And that would be typically how you would if you're again, like on a cottage lake or something like that and say, Oh, it rains coming. It might be because the clouds look like they're currently raining. Or it might be just because those are great clouds. And those look like they will be raining at some point. And they're coming our way because you can see how the clouds are blowing and maybe they are slowly moving towards you. Well, that's really tricky to tell if you don't you don't know what you're talking about. And a lot of us don't! "Oh, that rains coming!" Oh, it's really truly not.
Christine Malec:But when you see it's like when you you describe it at say at ground level, you would you might see actual column of rains, the rain coming towards you, would it be from horizon to horizon? I guess how far away you are.
JJ Hunt:It depends how far away you're in how big the storm is. Most of the time, if you're just standing at ground level, even if you're just even if you're on a prairie, and so you've got, you know, a wide open VISTAs, it's probably not from you know from one side of your peripheral vision to the other coming towards you, it would more likely be if you turn to the right, you can see it coming toward the left. And that would be more like what you're likely to see, instead of occupying the entire sky moving toward you, that will be more unusual.
Christine Malec:Let's talk lightning. We had some spectacular thunderstorms last night. And I venture to say that I'm not the only one who doesn't necessarily have the greatest concept of what it's like to look up into the sky and watch a lightning storm. So maybe you could start with the humdinger we had last night. Did you see any of the lightning?
JJ Hunt:Yeah, in the middle of the night as well, like some of you woke us up. It was it was big, it was loud, it was bright. So lightning, you know, there are different kinds of lightning that that present visually in different ways. So if you're not like, for example, we were in bed last night, we saw the lightning quote, unquote, we didn't actually see lightning bolts. What we saw was a flash of bright sky. So the world outside our window lit up momentarily, we didn't see a bolt it was just like a light was flicked on for a moment.
Christine Malec:What color? Not yellow sunlight?
JJ Hunt:Uhh... golden, yeah. Not sunlight, but it but there's there depends on the on the quality of the sky, that changes what the light looks like. So if the sky is a certain color, than the light you get might be a golden yellowy color, but might be bright, brilliant white, like an unnaturally brilliant light, like an old fashioned flash photographer kind of flash. So but if you're looking directly at the lightning, and you're relatively close up, it looks like a zigzagging, you know, crazy, like a route, like a tree route or a plant route that just suddenly flashes, again, bright white, or maybe it's got a golden hue to it. But it's like, suddenly, there's this there's this single tree root, maybe with a few tendrils coming off the side that comes from the sky all the way to the ground hits the ground disappears. And you don't necessarily see it go from cloud down to ground, because it happens so fast. Sometimes it's it just the whole thing appears and then disappears. Sometimes if you depending on again, depending on your perspective, depending on your point of view, if you're looking up, and certain lightning is kind of flickers in the cloud, so you're seeing those flashes, like I talked about in the clouds themselves. And sometimes you're seeing actual bolts of lightning in the clouds themselves and not coming down and making contact with the ground. And sometimes you're seeing like multiple flashes. So it's just all going on at the same time. There are these you know flashes of light, the bolts that are hitting the ground, maybe two or three at a time and you know, connecting with each other. I love when you when you have a big building or something like that, that the CN Tower has a lightning rod on top of it. Now after every storm, people post videos online of, of the big building in your neighborhood, getting hit by lightning because it's so dramatic. That looks like something out of a sci fi movie or a disaster movie with these bolts of lightning that are attracted right to the lightning rod at the top of the building. And again, they're these zigzagging lines that zap the top of the building and then disappear. And you know, depending on the lightning storm, you know that some of those buildings can get hit dozens of times during the single storm.
Christine Malec:And have you ever seen lightning from above?
JJ Hunt:Well, that's a good question. I have definitely been in a plane, where I could see those flashes of light in distant clouds. So again, it is actually very much the same experience as seeing it from the ground where the clouds just turn a different color momentarily. They get bright for a moment. But I've never been in an airplane and seen anything that looked like a bolt of lightning. That would be that would be right terrifying.
Christine Malec:Um, I'm going to switch gears to something that is a complete puzzle to me. And I really hope that listeners will weigh in on this one on Twitter or email or get in touch with us and let us know. So there's a phenomenon that every sighted person knows about so well that they don't even bat an eye about which is I felt that someone was looking at me and they turn around and there's someone looking at them. So as a totally blind person, I have never experienced that feeling. And I honestly feel that that is so bizarre that it's it's it's inexplicable by any science we know. And yet sighted people take it completely for granted. Whereas I think there should be, you know, huge laboratory studies about what the heck is behind this. And I don't even know what question I have about this, JJ. But I guess I can start with an easy one. Are you ever wrong? Like, how often do you get that feeling? And you're wrong versus You're right.
JJ Hunt:Well, that's a good question. It's hard to know. Because sometimes if you get that feeling, and you look around, by the time you're looking around, if someone has been looking at you, they might turn away.
Christine Malec:Yeah.
JJ Hunt:So it's possible. And it's so so it's really impossible to say, because sometimes that you just get that lingering feeling. But I've definitely had the experience of like feeling like I'm being looked at. And then you do look around and you catch someone looking at you. Or sometimes it's much like it's not dramatic, sometimes it's really quick. And you so for example, the other day, I was walking around in the neighborhood, and I was walking down an alley and I was walking right beside a, there was a house that was right on the on the edge of the alley. And there's a big long fence. And as I'm walking past the fence, this is in my neighborhood, I know it very well, I'm comfortable in this alley. It's not, you know, dark or anything, it's in the morning, and I'm walking by and suddenly, I turn to the right. I turned toward this fence. And I don't know why I walked past it all the time, there was nothing, but I turned to the right. And sure enough, there was a break in the fence and there was someone standing in, like at the crack in the fence, smoking a cigarette looking straight at me. Now, did I turn because I saw a break in the fence out of the corner of my eye and it hadn't yet registered with my brain intellectually that I was seeing something, was it just an instinctive turn? Because I saw the break in the fence? Did I see a person standing there? And is that why I suddenly turned and looked? Or did I feel this person staring at me walking past their house in the alley, and it was the the feeling of being watched? That made me turn? I honestly don't know. But things like that happen with some regularity, where you glance up in a bus or subway, and you look at someone immediately and you don't know why. And they are also looking at you. And maybe they turn to look at you because out of the corner of their eye they saw your movement. Or maybe it's the other way around, maybe you felt them looking at you. And so when you looked up, you immediately locked eyes. And that's that kind of thing happens all the time. So I don't know for me, the feeling someone looking at you can be that kind of creepy phenomenon. Like I feel like I'm being watched. But as often as not. It's those really quick moments, where it's hard to know what happened first, did I look at you? Did you look at me? What caught? What made us look at each other? Because that happens as often as anything.
Christine Malec:Have you ever had it where what was looking at you as an animal?
JJ Hunt:Oh, that's interesting. I can't think of any moment when I've had like that, where I thought something's looking at me and it turns out it was an animal, I've certainly locked eyes with animals. And had that moment where I stare at an animal or an animal stares at me for an uncomfortable amount of time. If you're walking, and you see a dog in a yard and that dog just stares at you as you walk past and you have to not lock eyes with that dog because that's an aggressive thing to look a dog right in the eye. So you kind of have to watch out of the corner of your eye to make sure that dog doesn't come at you. But they're staring at you. I've certainly had that and you can feel the look of that dog as you're walking past. You definitely can but I've never been walking through the forest, felt like I'm being watched, and sure enough, there's a sinister chipmunk who staring down at me! Ha ha ha!
Christine Malec:Heh heh heh."I've got a plan!"
JJ Hunt:Luckily I've not had that.
Christine Malec:So how does this phenomenon interact with public speaking, say, or an occasion where you've deliberately put yourself in a position to be stared out by a whole lot of people? Is there an overlap there?
JJ Hunt:Like in terms of how it feels to be in a room full of people watching you?
Christine Malec:Yeah. Is there something similar in the feelings or is it totally different?
JJ Hunt:That's interesting. I've never thought of it like that. Some people might. I'm fairly comfortable speaking. So being watched in that way doesn't make me particularly uncomfortable. But I wouldn't be surprised if for some people who don't like public speaking, part of it is might be that. Being looked at so intently.
Christine Malec:Hyperstimulated, whatever that instinctive thing is.
JJ Hunt:Yeah, it might very well be. I mean, there's definitely a thing about eye contact in general. If you are looking someone in the eye for too long, it's, it's tense, it's awkward. Unless it's romantic, it gets uncomfortable very quickly. And even if it is romantic, it can get uncomfortable pretty quickly. In fact, a lot of actors do this thing where if you're in a scene with someone, and you need to have what is supposed to be locked eyes, you're really gazing at each other, it can be off putting. It's really difficult. And so instead, what you do to trick the audience is that you stare at the space between their eyes, because you can't tell the difference from an audience standpoint.
Christine Malec:Oh!
JJ Hunt:But it saves you as an actor from locking on to another person in quite that intimate way. It's a bit of a trick.
Christine Malec:So what if someone was looking at... Okay, is this a plausible scenario? You feel like someone's looking at you turn, and they're looking at you through a camera?
JJ Hunt:Oh, interesting. So I have definitely noticed being photographed before, but I don't think it was because I felt anything. I think it was just because I spotted someone having a camera on me. But I don't think it's that transfer of that feeling of being watched. I don't think so. But...
Christine Malec:What about a kid? I'm trying to get to... something in this phenomenon. Is it rude? It's interesting, because your analytical enough to say, "I'm not sure what if what started what" but are you yourself crystal clear that it's a thing? Like you could have someone right behind you, and not have any chance of seeing them in your in your peripheral vision? And know and turn on? Yeah, they're looking like you are you're clear that that's a thing?
JJ Hunt:Yeah, it's definitely a thing. It definitely happens. It's, it's hard to come up with examples of moments when that's happened, because there hasn't been a lot of follow up.
Christine Malec:Of course, of course, you would just forget it. It's nothing to you.
JJ Hunt:Exactly. It just happens.
Christine Malec:You'd forget it.
JJ Hunt:And as often as not, there are excuses, there are other explanations. But that being said, there's definitely a feeling of being watched that I think overlaps with a couple things you're talking about, like it overlaps with that, maybe the public speaking thing that could be an overlap, it definitely overlaps with the discomfort of, of locking eyes for too long. sighted people who are single, have all had the experience of being on a bus or you know, in a crowd and, and you see someone that's kind of attractive, and yeah, and you look at each other for a minute. And there's a sweet spot where you look at each other for just the right amount of time. And it's a positive and warm and friendly and maybe even titillating encounter two seconds too long. You are a creep, and it feels off. And if one person's vibe is off, or one person's got a slightly different timer than the other one... it's awkward. I'm sure some of all of those things must overlap in some way. I don't know how but I'm sure they do.
Christine Malec:That thing about looking in the eyes. Do you think that's culturally determined as well?
JJ Hunt:Yeah. Oh, definitely. I'm sure there are elements of that that would be. Yeah, absolutely. I don't know what they are. That's a really good question, though. I'm sure I've been to - I know I've been to places where people don't want their they don't look into cameras, when they don't want their Oh, look into a camera when they're having their picture taken. Because there's some idea, usually an old one that it will steal your soul or right. That's how it gets translated to tourists and foreigners. But I am sure that there are situations where I have made the wrong kind of eye contact, I have looked directly at someone in the culture for an amount of time or in a way that was inappropriate, right. And I just didn't know it, because I don't know the rules.
Christine Malec:Well, as I said, I'd love to hear from listeners about this, because I've never had the feeling of being looked at except, you know, you know, when you walk into a room and everyone stops talking, right, you're pretty sure but that's not an intuition. That's just observation. So I'd love to hear from other listeners with visual impairments about whether you have this feeling or whether you don't and because I just think this is absolutely... I don't want to use the word paranormal ---- but it's beyond our ability of science to explain and yet sighted people just go "Oh, yeah, whoa, hum." No one seems very interested in getting to the bottom of it in the way that I am. So any any feedback from listeners I'd love to hear. Heh heh. We love making this podcast. If you love hearing it. Perhaps you'll consider supporting its creation and development by becoming a patron. We've set up a Patreon page to help cover the costs of putting the show together. You can contribute as a listener or as a sponsor to help ensure that accessible and entertaining journalism continues to reach our community. Visit patreon.com/talk Description To me that's pa t ar e o n.com/talk description to me have feedback or suggestions of what you'd like to hear about here's how to get in touch with us. Our email address is talk description to me@gmail.com. Our Facebook page is called Talk description to me. Our website is talk description to me.com and you can follow us on Twitter at talk Description.