Talk Description to Me

Episode 102 - Silent Jobs

April 30, 2022 Christine Malec and JJ Hunt Season 4 Episode 102
Talk Description to Me
Episode 102 - Silent Jobs
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Ever wonder what a conductor is doing at the front of an orchestra? Or grow curious about those hisses and sputters when you're waiting in line for your morning espresso? Today, Christine and JJ break down the routines, gestures, equipment and actions of people who work in silence.

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JJ Hunt:

Talk description to me is Christine Malec and JJ Hunt.

Christine Malec:

Hi, I'm Christine Malec.

JJ Hunt:

And I'm JJ Hunt. This is talk description to me, where the visuals of current events and the world around us get hashed out in description rich conversations.

Christine Malec:

Several times in our communications with listeners, we've had requests for Symphony conductors. And we've always intended to talk about that. And it got us thinking about other professions where one's work is seen but not heard, and so are sort of closed to people who are not experiencing the world visually. So today, we have a bit of a collection of professions whose whose workers conduct themselves in silence, but where their movements and their gestures and what they're doing are essential to their work. So I'm JJ Are we starting with with Symphony conductors?

JJ Hunt:

Yeah, let's start there. That was the initial request. And it's, I mean, it's wonderfully dramatic and in artistic and sometimes hilarious. So yeah, let's let's start with symphony. What's your experience with conductors or symphonies? Do you have any?

Christine Malec:

Yeah, well, zero. Other than that, I've been to them as a as a listener. And I know that there's someone, you know, an individual sort of, I guess they've got their back to the audience. And they're waving things around and indicating, but I'm, yeah, I don't really know what they do, or whether there's style involved and how that all works out or how they're dressed. Yeah, I have lots of questions. Because I know so little.

JJ Hunt:

Yeah, my experience is similarly limited. I've been to the symphony a handful of times. And, you know, it's certainly aware of the conductor of the symphony conductor as like a pop culture icon. But my personal experience doesn't go far beyond, you know, old Bugs Bunny cartoons and whatnot. So I was really happy to have the excuse to like, dive into this a little bit. What exactly are conductors doing with their hands, their gestures, their body language. So the movements of a symphony conductor are, I mean, each, each artist is unique, some conductors gesture really broadly, some are wild and playful. Some are very small and measured, like their gestures are really tight and precise, the movements will change with the piece of music. But that's not necessarily to say that a quieter piece of music will always inspire smaller movements, or gestures, right? Like you might have a conductor who gestures broadly, even if the music is quite quiet and small in in a particular moment. So I think it's fair to say that the gestures of a conductor convey both technical information and emotional or tonal information to the musicians. So the rhythm of the baton might help keep the beat. And a gesture of the freehand might indicate a cue. But the way that the baton is held and the subtle quality of the gesture will inspire the musicians to play in a in a certain way. So let's start Shall we start with the baton because that like that, please? Yeah, so a conductor's baton is a thin, tapered stick, somewhere between, you know, one to two feet long. It's not unlike a long chopstick. Many modern batons have a small bulb at the grip end that sits in the palm. And there are different ways to hold it like you know, every conductor holds the baton in a slightly different way. So, you know, I've seen the bulb held in the palm of the hand with a closed fist, Knuckles pointing up and the baton sticking straight out on the thumb side kind of aimed forward like almost like a magic wand. I've seen I've seen it held like that. I've also seen it gently pinched between the thumb and the index finger with the palm up and the baton pointing forward. It's like very delicate, so that so the baton becomes an extension of the forearm and held straight out pinched between the finger and thumb. I've also seen it held like a cigar. So pinched between the thumb on the underside and the fingertips above, pointing across the chest more so than out in front. Different ways of holding it depending on the way the conductor chooses to communicate. Generally speaking the baton is held in the right hand, this is the rhythmic hand, and it marks out the rhythm or beat patterns. So a 4-4 on the baton, the you know, 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4, the baton point starts up. So you're pointing the baton up about head height, and then it drops down to waist height. That's one. And then it comes back up, swoops across the torso to the left, that's 2. 1-2. And then it goes across to the right, that's three, and then swoops back up to the top, that's four. So you end up making this kind of cross pattern over and over again, that's a four, four. And like, imagine, if you're writing in the air, you're holding a baton yourself, and you're writing this kind of cross pattern in the air with a baton, there are some sharp points in what you're writing, like, when you hit the top and the bottom, that's a bit of a sharp point. But at the side to side, you don't just zip straight across, there's a there's a kind of swoop, as you change direction, from right to left, that kind of makes the action much more fluid, it's a more fluid action than it is like, up, down, right, left Up, Down, Right, you know what I mean? It's a little bit smoother, a two, a two, four. So that's more like drawing a j in the air. So the top is one, and then you come to us. So it's like one to one to the one is at the top, and then you swooped down and hook up a little bit like the letter J. And then that's the two, back and forth.

Christine Malec:

Oh.

JJ Hunt:

Yeah, you might also have seen conductors pick out a small two, four beat, just with a flick of the wrist up and down 1-2, 1-2, 1-2. So it's just, that's a smaller, tighter version,

Christine Malec:

Oh. instead of this kind of smooth fluid. So that's that's your that's, that's the right hand, that's the baton hand. And from a technical standpoint, the left hand, my understanding is for cueing and dynamics. So a conductor might gesture with the left hand to cue a section of the orchestra. So perhaps a sweeping gesture of of the left hand will let the violins know that it's time to enter but you enter smoothly, you kind of draw yourself in so so the hand is pointing toward the violins and indicating that now's the moment, but it's also giving a gesture to indicate how they should enter. So the sweeping gesture will be different. It's not just a pointing like go. It's not just that there's also like a quality element to it, right? This is where the left hand goes beyond just like you raise your left hand to say, you know, raise the volume and the look and you lower the hand to say lower the volume. Yes, you're giving that kind of cueing and dynamic information. But you're also using the left hand to convey tone and emotion and feeling. And really, the entire demeanor of the conductor does this right? The facial expressions, the way they hold their shoulders, their posture, all of that conveys tone. It's kind of like when we talked about ASL interpreters. Um hm.

JJ Hunt:

You're not just interpreting the literal words, you're also interpreting the tone, right. And so that's part of what the conductor's doing with their body language is they're giving tonal instructions to certain sections of the orchestra, even specific musicians. It's kind of part instruction, but also part inspiration. Right? I imagine you know, we're talking about professional musicians being directed by professional conductors. I'm sure the musicians already understand the piece that they're playing, they probably have a pretty solid understanding of the emotional required requirements they know when they're supposed to come in and what they know that intellectually, but if you know these are human artists, and if they're sighted, they're going to respond to the gestures and the expressions of the conductor on both like a conscious and a subconscious level. So the conductor might be keeping the rhythm with their right the baton and they will gesture to the strings with their left to say it's time to play that phrase. But if the conductor has a tight grip on the baton, and his gesturing with sharp movements like closed fists, tight shoulders and they're making a tight angry face, then the string players are both intellectually and kind of instinctively can tighten up their playing right they're gonna hold their bow a little bit tighter, their their, their draw across the strings is going to be a little bit shorter, but the opposite demeanor and body language so a loose grip on the baton flowing gestures a serene expression And that's going to inspire the musicians to play accordingly. Right. That's why I think the conductors matter. They're not only marking the time and marking those moments, but they are inspiring, a different a different tone. That's kind of my understanding of the body language of conductors.

Christine Malec:

When you look at Symphony performances, which I'm sure you did in preparation for this, do you see that the musicians are always looking at the conductor?

JJ Hunt:

Great question. Not always, but they're there they are definitely. I mean, they're, first of all, they're all facing the conductor, right, they're seated in a semi circle, generally speaking, around the conductor. And so they're all facing that way when they're not looking at their music, but their eyes are generally lifting if they're sighted, and they're looking at the conductor, so they're not staring at the conductor. But they're definitely keeping that keeping that communication open between, between the conductor and themselves. And they generally don't look at other musicians, it's either at their, at their music, or up at the conductor and back down like that's generally from my point of view, where their eyeline is. And does the conductor move in space, or do their feet stay in one spot? Generally speaking, they stand at a podium, and they and they stay more or less in one spot. They're not running around the stage pointing here and there. But some conductors are really broad, like, hugely broad hands, gesturing overhead, bouncing to the beat, almost dancing on the spot sometimes, and like with facial expressions that are like mellow, dramatic, silent film actors or something like gestures. And so there's movement in those kinds of conductors, but they're still rooted at the, you know, at that podium, whereas the, you know, the the opposite those small gestures really precise, the audience behind the conductor won't necessarily even see the conductor's movements, because they're so tight, they're just right in front of the conductor's chest. And so like, it's really difficult for you know, they, you might see them turn toward the, you know, one part of the string section or turn toward the horns, but you won't necessarily see their their hand gestures, or the baton gestures, because they're so tight, they're hidden from the view of the of the audience, it really comes down to the style of the conductor. And, yeah, how they choose to communicate with their musicians.

Christine Malec:

How is it that you are seeing their facial expressions, it's not just a special camera view.

JJ Hunt:

Yeah. I watched a couple of different videos, I watched some instructional videos like conductors explaining, like, here's what I'm doing, here's what this is. And so you can see some of those. But then, especially if you've got a well known conductor, a celebrity conductor, they will put a camera on their face. So you're basically looking at the overtop of the musicians, you're looking over their heads, you're looking at the conductor and at the audience behind them. And that's when, as an audience member, you really get to see like, they are performers themselves often, but they're not performing. They're performing with their gestures broadly for the audience behind them, but they're performing with their facial expressions. For the musicians themselves. They're the ones who are watching that, the expression and then some of them, they just have a ball like you can tell they're loving it. And when something goes well, in a performance, they'll share a smile. I imagine they're sharing that smile with a musician. They're certainly emoting as they get work their way through a piece or if there's, if there's part of the piece that is really dramatic, intense, honestly, the expressions on these conductors as they're really into it, they're gonna pop veins on sticking Oh, yeah, we really get into it.

Christine Malec:

Another profession that I had not considered as fitting into this category is people on runways in airports, and I had never considered how how that whole infrastructure works, but it's actual people on the tarmac making actual gestures. Is that is it that simple?

JJ Hunt:

Yeah, yeah, there are there are folks who stand on the tarmac around the airplane and, and they communicate with pilots using like red batons or wands or paddles, or sometimes just their hands in there, they're there to basically get airplanes from the runway across the tarmac to to the gate and then to back away from the gate and get them on their way to the runway again, so and they're I think they're, I've seen different titles for these folks. But mostly, the most frequent title I've seen is aircraft marshaller. So the aircraft marshaller is wear reflective safety vests, orange or neon yellow, green. seen with reflective silver stripes. And they have large ear protectors on like, like great big headphones. And yeah, they they gesture with these red paddles that look kinda like ping pong paddles, those are for smaller airports, or batons or ones that are, but you know, maybe a foot long and they're either red hard red plastic, or they're, they're glowing, they kind of look like mini toy lightsabers that a kid might play with. So they can use those at night. They light right up. And yeah, like I said, they guide pilots signaling. So they've got a series of different signals that lets the pilots know, you know, stop, hear move, forward, turn, right, all those kinds of things.

Christine Malec:

It's not done by radio? I would assume that's all done by radio.

JJ Hunt:

Yeah, I think a lot of that is very much done, certainly telling a pilot,"you're going to be going to gate B-4". And then as you're going down the runways and going if you're at a big airport, like a big international airport, the roads will like all the paths from the runway to the gates are marked. And so it's just like following directions on you know, how to get from your house to the coffee shop. And so they'll follow that. And that information will be relayed through through radio. But then when you're getting closer, when you're approaching the terminal, you need, you need very specific information like, yes, you're safe to roll forward, no, you need to stop, you know, slow down, move back, all clear like that some of that very, in the moment, information is still done by these marshals. And this is also not just a commercial airline thing, this is also a military. So if you're on an aircraft carrier at a military base, they're going to be Marshallers doing that, you know, working in those situations as well. And sometimes they just use their hands, they're just waving their hands here with a series of Yeah, yeah, these kinds of, of hand gestures are different than conductors. They're trying to eke out nuance and they're trying to inspire, you know, some kind of artistic thing. And this is not like that at all this is these gestures need to be super clear, blunt and simple, right? Yeah. So a martial are generally stands straight and tall legs spread just a little bit facing usually facing the front of the plane, or they'll sometimes they are at the side of the plane when they're when the planes backing up. And so for example, you're facing the front of the plane, the marshal raises both wands in the air straight in the air, pointing them at the sky, that means put your plane in front of me. So move your plane, so you're facing me directly, oh, and then they take that same position. And they start waving, waving the ones overhead. So crossing them overhead, and then going arms straight out to the side and then crossing at the head over and over again, in a very moderate, you know, measured pace. That means Stop, just stop normally, if you need them to stop quickly an emergency stop, then you would do that same gesture, but wave your hands back and forth, scissoring them back and forth more quickly. That means an emergency stop you if you hold the ones out. So a marshaller will hold the ones out in front, chest high with the with the batons or the ones pointing straight up. And then tip them back toward the shoulders and unison. That means move forward. Come toward me tip. Tip Tip. So you're just saying, Oh, come this way. Come this way. Come this way. Yeah, yes, very clean, very clear. That's what these modulars are all about clear signals to let you know, a big airplane like a commercial jet. Know that, you know, they've got to eat up to to the gate so that everyone can get off the plane. Those have to be very precise movements, but also little planes that are you know, little propeller planes that are moving into a hangar where there are lots of you know, mechanics and you know, people walking around. You need these these folks to to guide that's what they're doing. They're just guiding the airplanes.

Christine Malec:

Are they wearing ear protection?

JJ Hunt:

Yeah, these great big, they look like headphones. They're huge ear protectors. They're also usually wearing like parkas like big thick coats, because it's pretty windy.

Christine Malec:

Ya, ya.

JJ Hunt:

It's can get very cold out there. I've seen a couple of these guys videos where they kind of they kind of dance on the spot to keep themselves warm. Yeah, I think they have to be a little bit careful about that because the right gesture means something. Yeah, but you can find a few videos online of dancing. Airport marshals? Yeah, I think it's probably frowned upon. Because their signals have to be so clear. The stakes are really so very high. But there are some videos of Marshalls having a little bit of fun. There's one video actually of a Marshall here in Toronto at Pearson International Airport, dancing on the tarmac. He was guiding a plane away from the departures gate So he was at the side of the airplane. And apparently the story goes this, this Marshal spotted a baby a crying baby at the window of the airplane because it is an interesting moment the passengers can look out the window and see what's going on. And this Marshal from the from the tarmac, I could see a little crying baby being held up to the window, like trying to entertain this, this crying kid.

Christine Malec:

Yeah.

JJ Hunt:

So the marshal decided to do a little silly dance to make the kids. So while he's doing his proper signals, move ahead, move ahead, he starts thrusting his hips and doing silly walk and shaking his backside. And people in the plane filmed it and put it online. And this happened during the holidays a couple years ago. So it kind of got picked up as in the lighter side of the news, kinda story.

Christine Malec:

Right, right right.

JJ Hunt:

Pretty cute. Pretty cute.

Christine Malec:

When we were talking about this episode, you suggested something that hadn't occurred to me, which is baristas, and it's classic case of me not knowing what I don't know. And so when I go into a coffee shop in order of, you know, some kind of Coffee with 15 adjectives, I guess there's a, there's a thing that happens behind the counter. So Can you fill us in on some of the visuals there?

JJ Hunt:

Yes. I mean, if you're getting just like a standard drip brewed coffee at a diner or doughnut shop? Yeah, there's not a lot to describe from that situation that encounter, right. So maybe the coffee pot is going to have an orange plastic spout and handle instead of a brown or black plastic spout are handled to indicate that it's decaf. Or maybe the pot will have like hand writing on the side, like a time 9:56 written on the side of the pot and like a white grease pencil to indicate when the coffee is made.

Christine Malec:

Oh!

JJ Hunt:

Yeah, maybe a server's gonna have a particular skill to you know, pouring both the coffee with one hand and the milk with the other so that they mix as they pour. But that's about the extent of like getting coffee in

Christine Malec:

Oooh. a diner, there's not a lot about that visual, you know, visually that experience. But if you go to like more of a specialty coffee shop and Italian coffee shop anywhere, basically that is espresso based. There's a ritual, there's a lot going on in that experience. There's a there's machinery, there's artistry. And it's kind of intimidating. Ha ha!

JJ Hunt:

There's so much going on, let's talk about the espresso machine itself, because it's like, it's it's so important to this ritual. I mean, lots of different kinds of style of these is is not quite all over the map, because there are a lot of them, they're Italian. And so the design is very like 1950s, Italian sexy and sleek. They're gorgeous pieces of equipment, lots of Chrome and stainless steel and some art deco in there. I mean, they're just beautiful. They have colors like a KitchenAid stand mixer, like seafoam green or mint green or this like teal color that looks like it's a milkshake maker from a diner like beautiful. And like I said lots of Chrome and stainless steel. The smallest version of these is like the size of a big toaster. But most proper coffee shops have a big machine that has multiple spouts multiple places for to make, you know different like four or five suppressors at the same time. And they might be four feet long, two feet tall, a foot and a half deep. And they're covered with dials and buttons and gauges and spouts and handles. It's honestly it's a little bit like a super sexy you know cockpit of a small airplane.

Christine Malec:

God I'm so curious. Now I just want to dive behind the counter and check one out.

JJ Hunt:

Yeah, my caffeine levels were pretty high yesterday when I was doing my notes on this because I go to the coffee shop.

Christine Malec:

Tee hee. I need another!

JJ Hunt:

I need another! I need another! So to make an espresso the barista takes what looks like a small pot with a bottom filled with tiny holes to a grinder or coffee dispenser. So this little pot is called a porta filter. And it's got it's got a handle on it. And the little you know the bowl of the of the pot has tiny tiny holes at the bottom of it. And then you know take it to the ticket to the grinder the coffee dispenser and it dumps out a pre measured amount of coffee into the pot it shoots right down. And then the barista takes what looks like it's a hand tamper. It kind of looks like a heavy stainless steel stamp that's got a very, very flat base. That is exactly the size of the porta filter basket. So they put the porta filter on a counter and they take this tamper and they press it down. So what they're doing is they're they're compressing

Christine Malec:

Oh! the coffee grounds and compacting them into a solid puck that's at the bottom of this porta filter. And then they slide that porta filter into the espresso machine there are slots by guests There could be one or two but that could be up to four, five. And they they slide it into the espresso machine. It's called the the group head is the is the name of the slot and then they they twist the handle to the side to seal it to lock it into place. And then they put a very small espresso company, the tiny little cup, usually porcelain, very thick white porcelain. And then they press a button on the machine to tell it what amount of boiling water needs to shoot through the porta filter. And the water trickles through the porta filter really quite quickly. So it's not a drip, it's a kind of it's not quite shooting out because it's got to go through this now condensed puck of of coffee, but it's a quick trickle through the porta filter out the bottom and into the cup. If they're doing a double, what they might do is put a porta filter on that has a splitter on the bottom. So this splitter it looks like a stainless steel half moon in a in a frowning configuration, and that's directly under that's right at the bottom of the porta filter so that when the water pours through through the coffee and comes out as coffee, it splits on this double spout. And then the barista will put two tiny espresso cups side by side beneath that. The coffee comes down onto the splitter and goes into two streams and pours into two espresso cups at the same time. So if you're having this as an espresso, no milk, then the coffee that comes out is going to have a very thin layer of what's called creama at the top. And I've heard coffee experts describe it as what you want to get is a creama that looks like Tiger skin. Oh? Ok...

JJ Hunt:

Which is very strange but actually really accurate. It's this like rich mottled tan color. It's a little bit like leather but kind of cloudy. It's not like it's not it's not like foam. It's not like thick, white frothy cream foam. But it's like a little thin version of the head on a pint of Guinness.

Christine Malec:

Oh!

JJ Hunt:

Very thin layer just a little bit foamy. These are the air bubbles in the coffee oils on the barista yeah the barista is going to know exactly how they want it. If there's too much, it's too bitter if there's not enough than the flavor won't last... It's very... it's very very.

Christine Malec:

Ha!

JJ Hunt:

And if you're getting something with milk like a latte or a cappuccino or macchiato or something the barista is going to while the coffee is brewing while while the cup is being filled. The barista is going to take a stainless steel vessel like a like maybe like a narrow, tall, curvy pot, like something that's shaped like the bottom half of a butternut squash so it's got a bit of a ball to it. And they'll take that to the side of the of the espresso machine where there's a long spout like a long steel tube with an elbow that angles down that's the steamer and the little cup this like butternut squash shaped cup is like is the steam pitcher. And so they they pour a little bit of milk in the steam pitcher, and then they slip the curvy pot under the steamer spout or in which is aimed down so he kind of slip up and under it. And then they turn a dial on the side of the machine to start the steam. This is a familiar sound for anyone who gets this kind of coffee regularly. The hiss the hiss Exactly. And then there's this very gentle up and down motion where they're they're moving the steam or pitcher up and down, up and down, up and down. And they're creating a foam. And depending on what kind of coffee you're getting, they you know if it's if it's a latte, you're going to use a different kind of foam than if it's a cappuccino or if it's a macchiato. And then here's where the like the crazy visual artistry comes in. So especially if you go into like more hipster coffee shops, the baristas will pour the foamy milk into your coffee and they will pace the flow of the of the you know pouring out of this the steamer pot, they will move the cup from side to side and they will tip it ever so slightly so that the thicker form foam stays at the top and the thinner milk goes down to the bottom and they create works of art on the surface of the cup. So in seconds like literally like they're not spending hours you can spend hours doing this stuff, but it's really in a matter of seconds and a few very smooth gestures. A barista can make a heart or tulips or even a swan or sheafs of wheat or palm fronds.

Christine Malec:

What?!

JJ Hunt:

I know it's amazing.

Christine Malec:

Get out!

JJ Hunt:

Oh yeah, it's just because of the way they're tipping the cup and moving it from side to side to allow thinner milk to pour forward at one moment and then you can draw a straight line of milk do directly through whatever shape you've created. And because the milk is heavier than the coffee, it'll pull a line through the design. Oh my god.

Christine Malec:

Oh go on! How long would a design like that last on the surface of a coffee cup?

JJ Hunt:

If you just left it and didn't have a sip didn't stir, it didn't even put sugar or anything like that. It'll probably last two or three minutes before it starts to kind of dissipate.

Christine Malec:

Crazy.

JJ Hunt:

Yeah, yeah, it's really my it's quite pretty. It's quite something.

Christine Malec:

Wow. Wow, I had no idea. It. It ties in interestingly, with some feedback we got when we propose this episode on Twitter. We asked people, you know, what, what professions or what what tasks that are highly visual, are you interested in having described and we got feedback from a visual artist, right?

JJ Hunt:

Yeah, Chris Webb, who is a describes himself as a sight impaired artist. He's in the UK. And he mentioned in his tweet that that artists may sit in silence as they work, right. Maybe they listen to music, and then they'll have these bursts of excitement or they'll shout out exclamations in response to how their work is going. It was a really nice little mental picture that Chris painted. Obviously, every artist is has their own way of working. And different artists are working with different mediums. So it's, it's impossible to describe the visuals of the artistic process in general terms. But I will say that this rhythm that Chris points out is definitely one that I've seen before either, you know, watching artists work in person or seeing them filmed and whatnot, this, this thing where an artist is working silently and intently for a long time, like the phrase lost in thought comes to mind, you know, either because they've got, they've got music, or they're just staring at their work, or they're, you know, in a zone, whatever it is, visually, they've, they're quiet and not moving much, and then maybe the pace of their work will speed up, and they'll they'll get on a little jag and there'll be, you know, their hands are moving more quickly, they're touching their Canvas or their, or their sculpture more regularly. And then in their, in their in a flow right there. It's very, it's a very loose but but just constant movement, and then sometimes they'll slow right down. And every single stroke of the pen or brush looks, looks agonizing, like they don't know how to move forward, and they're in there, and they're worried about precision, right? Or they fret over every addition to the canvas. You know, it can be a variety of these things, right, moving in and out of pace and zone, and then something will happen. And what's amazing about this is it's not necessarily clear to the observer, what has happened to the artist.

Christine Malec:

Of course.

JJ Hunt:

Something has happened that makes them gleeful or furious or excited. Maybe they missed a stroke or they there was a happy accident, or maybe they've just created a perfect line or texture. I don't know what it is, but something will happen that will get them excited. And the artist will blurt out their response emotion.

Christine Malec:

Ha ha!

JJ Hunt:

Maybe it's verbal, maybe it's gestural, maybe it's an expression on their face. And I've very much seen like artists like Storm Away from Canvas is so angry at themselves or thrown down their sketchbooks. But I've also seen artists who are like, so excited about what has just happened, that they look around for someone to come see, like, look what happens, you gotta get over here, like check this out.

Christine Malec:

Right. Ya ya.

JJ Hunt:

Such a funny thing. It's I think, you know, Chris's tweet, really, you know, painted this image quite succinctly of the of the way artists are in their own space. And there's a lot going on. It's not just the you know, it's not just the pen dragging across the page. It's not just the paint being smeared on the canvas, it's, it's the whole relationship between, you know, their body language, their intensity in their, you know, their, wherever they're at, as they're creating their piece of art, be it a coffee or a sculpture.

Christine Malec:

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Symphony Conductors
Airport Marshallers
Baristas
Artists