What does Aunt Jemima look like? How about Uncle Ben? Sports teams with offensive names don't have images associated with those monickers, do they? With businesses facing real pressure to change racially-charged logos, mascots and team names, Christine and JJ discuss the visuals of controversial brands. Later, the conversation shifts to descriptions of the COVID lockdown. Join us for an episode recorded days before major announcements by some of the discussed brands!
For links to images of Aunt Jemima, some further reading on the origins of Chicago's NHL team name, and an update on other appropriated names, check out our Talk Description to Me blog.
What does Aunt Jemima look like? How about Uncle Ben? Sports teams with offensive names don't have images associated with those monickers, do they? With businesses facing real pressure to change racially-charged logos, mascots and team names, Christine and JJ discuss the visuals of controversial brands. Later, the conversation shifts to descriptions of the COVID lockdown. Join us for an episode recorded days before major announcements by some of the discussed brands!
For links to images of Aunt Jemima, some further reading on the origins of Chicago's NHL team name, and an update on other appropriated names, check out our Talk Description to Me blog.
Talk description to me with Christine Malec and JJ hunt.
Christine:Hi, I'm Christine Malec. And I'm JJ hunt. This is Talk Description to Me, where the visuals of current events and the world around us get hashed out in description, rich conversations, The topics that has been very much in the news with black lives matter protests and the the reckoning with some of the issues of race in, in Canada, the United States has been about branding and the visual aspects of branding. And so Aunt Jemima, uncle Ben and for a blind person, this is,ua bit of an academic question because I guess if someone asked me, I might've k nown a unt J emima was black, but it's just not, it's not in my consciousness because I don't have the images in my head. And so I had to do a bit of reading about aunt Jemima to understand,uw hat, what the visual indicators are. So I wonder if you could describe some of those images and the,uin a, in a neutral way or with, with some of the information about the cultural contexts behind them.
JJ:Absolutely. And you know, the cultural context is so important here, because if I were just to describe the most modern version of aunt Jemima as the character exists on packaging now, without any kind of cultural context, there's, there's nothing offensive about it. It's just a picture of a you know, of a a thin black woman. Who's got permed hair, a Pearl earring, she's got a big smile there. They were quite expressly going for a working mom, look with this woman. And this is the image of aunt Jemima as it's been in place since 1989. And so I could give you that description and, you know, you might be picturing someone in a group photo at a family picnic, right? There's nothing unusual about that, but if you understand it in the context of this character, it means a whole different thing. So the A Jemima character goes back to 1889, and this is a, a mammy character. Mammies, this is the, the mammies are archetype characters of enslaved black women who were domestic servants. And these are big women with great big smiles, big chubby cheeks. And they're always beaming with very dark skin and very white teeth. You see these characters in old videos and old movies gone with the wind, had a mammy character. The, our gang, there was mammy characters in that. A lot of old TV, old movies would have this, this, this domestic servant, this big black woman with a huge smile as you know, she was just a staple character. And they created the Aunt Jemima character is quite specifically a mammy. And she,was used to, sell the pancake mix, right from the very beginning of the company. In fact, in 1893, they hired the, the aunt Jemima company hired a woman, an actual woman named Nancy Green, who was a former slave who had moved to Chicago to work as a, as a caretaker for a prominent white family. They hired this woman to portray the character of aunt Jemima at the world fair. And what this woman did was she stood before a crowd, making pancakes and telling romantic stories about her days as a slave in the South. And she would have on this headscarf and she tell these stories and she was a huge hit. So much of a hit that Nancy Green got a lifetime contract to be the promo lady to essentially be the, the live embodiment of the aunt Jemima character. And then all of their promotional material was then based on this woman. But it's important to remember that this is a character of a black person created by white people for other white people. So her representation often looks almost like it almost looks like a white person in black face. So this is like, again, the exaggerated smile with big white teeth, big, big cheeks, the headscarf on, on her head, a very wide flat nose and versions of that character were used all the way up to 1989. When they thinned the character down, they took off her headscarf. They gave her like a perm. So not like really tight, not like a, what one would think of as an Afro, not tight curly hair, but permed hair that gave her the nice Pearl earring. She still had a big smile, but again, they're going for the working mom look. And so that's the modern version that a lot of us know, but the history it goes, goes back to these mammy characters from the late 1800's.
Christine:There's such a disconnect there because the image you as so maternal and comforting, and yet the reality behind it was enslavement and exploitation. That's very complicated.
JJ:Exactly. And that the idea of this maternal, this, you know, this, this caring woman who is cooking your meals and telling you stories about her days in the South, you know, this was very appealing to people and is very appealing to white people. You know, who's gonna, who's gonna make your breakfast your, your black servant, who's smiling and happy and and a joy to have in the kitchen. This is, this is what they were selling. So even if you change that image to a thin woman with a pearl earring, somewhere in the back of your mind there, perhaps the idea is they're selling you, the notion of someone cooking you breakfast. And this is, this is the this kind of leads into uncle Ben's uncle Ben as a character created in 1946, he's an older black gentleman in a bow tie. He's usually wearing a blue suit jacket, and he's a balding gent with the white hair at the sides of his head. He's got fairly thick eyebrows and he's got he's always smiling, but it's a closed mouth smile. This is a character, it's an oil painting to the care. The uncle Ben's is almost always depicted in oils, an oil painting. So there's a he's refined. He said, gentlemen he was actually based on an image of a maitre D someone saw a picture of a maitre D and they took that, that image and turned it into this uncle Ben's character. He's, he's a gentlemen. And you know, for some people they would say, well, what's wrong with that? He's just a black gentlemen, but again, there's, there's enough about the image itself with the, you know, the black gentlemen in a bow tie and this blue suit jacket does have a there's something like makes him look like he's serving you. And that's that image of, of, of a black man serving you. Your dinner is it's hard to separate that from you know, from their marketing strategy.
Christine:What does the new packaging imagery look like?
JJ:Well, they haven't announced what they're doing next. They've talked about the Uncle Ben's company. I can't remember what the parent company is, but they've talked about evolving the uncle Ben's logo, evolving the character. They've tried that before with aunt Jemima, the 1989 evolution into this thin down woman with the Pearl earring. I have to think at this point, the aunt Jemima character is, is more or less done. There's a bit of a push to have the real life aunt Jemima, Nancy Greene, to have her recognized as you know, for her service. I saw reference to this in an article, but some someone referred to Nancy Green, as the most exploited black woman in the history of the United States. I mean that's quite a claim to fame. I would be surprised if they were able to evolve the aunt Jemima character. There was some effort in the past to take the uncle Ben's character and turn him into the CEO. This was the new idea that uncle Ben's was the CEO of the company and welcoming you to you know, buy his rice. But they still kept him in that, you know, in that blue blue jacket with the, with the black bow tie. And I don't, I don't think it worked. I'm not sure if they, they, I haven't seen any visuals of of any new characters or any new branding for either aunt Jemima or uncle Ben's,
Christine:Again, as a blind person I'm just indifferent or completely ignorant, really. And so are there other examples that are being scrutinized more closely now?
JJ:Yeah. There are a handful of other of other products, grocery products in particular. I think there's a cream of wheat character. Who's a, again, it's a black chef with a you know, with a chef's hat, a white chef's hat. I think there, you know, that's been pointed out then there, there are dozens, hundreds perhaps of smaller brands that, that use in particular like chief brand or, you know, Indian imagery. And I, and I use the word Indian quite intentionally because that's, that's what it's, it's hearkening to. These are not images of indigenous people. These are characters of Indians. And of course this is a major deal in pro sports and in amateur sports where you've got all kinds of teams that are, you know, the Indians or the black Hawks or the Redskins Redskins have really, this is so outrageous.
Christine:Do they have imagery attached to those names or are they just names?
JJ:They, they definitely do. There's a, the Cleveland Indians have a caricature of an Indian, the Cleveland Indians have a mascot named Chief Wahoo. And this is a cartoon of a, of a beaming. I know it's outrageous! They've got a cartoon mascot, he's got a huge smile, a big nose. His face is red and he's got a red feather coming up the back of his head, chief wahoo. And so the Cleveland Indians have quietly semi retired that character. So they have stopped selling tee shirts or hats with chief wahoo. But everyone still knows that this character is associated with the team. They haven't changed the name, the Cleveland Indians, they haven't done that. But every, but there are lots of sports teams that have mascots or logos or names that are especially related to indigenous people. Probably the best of the worst, if that makes sense, is the Chicago Blackhawks. So the Chicago Blackhawks logo is an indigenous person in profile. So this this person has a kind of dark yellow skin and red paint on the cheek and on the chin dark hair and feathers in, in his hair in a green, red and yellow. These are the team colors. And it's I mean, as far as these things go, it's kind of a respectful, you know, if you're going to culturally appropriate an indigenous person for your logo, this is the most respectful way to do it, if that makes any sense. And in fact, my understanding is that some indigenous communities have actually in indigenous individuals have embraced this logo. But it's still a representation of an indigenous person on the, you know, on the shirt of a sports team. Right?
Christine:Well, now I'm so naive because I always thought when I heard Blackhawks, I just pictured a predatory bird.
JJ:I know. And that makes sense. Right? And in fact, there's, there is a movement to change the logo. There's a, an artist out there, who's a designer. I can't remember his name off the top of my head, but he's come up with this fantastic redesign of the logo. So you take this this original character, who's an indigenous man in profile, and you change that to a bird. So now this is a bird with a beak. That's the same color as the original logo skin. And instead of having black hair, there's a black face behind this you know, behind this, this golden yellow beak. And and the feathers that were in the indigenous man's hair are now part of this bird's head. So there's a swooping red feather, yellow feather, green feather, and an orange feather. And it's so fantastic redesign of the original logo that turns the character from an indigenous person into the Black Hawk bird. I am personally hopeful. I think if any sports team has a chance to make this transition smoothly and you know, and in a respectful way, I think it's the Chicago Blackhawks. And I think it's with I think it's with a logo like this,
Christine:There's an essay to be written here because the indigenous band of people who in question chose the black Hawk as their, I don't know what the right word is, but they identified themselves with the animal, the black Hawk, who is a predatory bird with properties that I guess they identified with. And so there's this funny, full circle complexity that I just, I want to write a whole paper on about a sports team. I'm going back to, to where it started, which was with the predatory bird called the black Hawk. And I don't know what to do with that, but there's a, there's a complexity there. And I really like...
JJ:You know, I wonder where the name black Hawk for an indigenous people comes from, is that a name that was assigned by colonists to this group of people? So then that, then it would loop back again, right?
Christine:Oh my gosh. That's even deeper. Oh my gosh. Okay. Public spaces are looking different as well. So I know most people Canadians at least will be aware of the, the images from Trinity Bellwoods park, which is a very popular park in Toronto, where on the first weekend where it was sort of permitted to be out there was dense crowds and very very noticeable lack of social distancing. And so I know some parks have taken measures to, to give visual cues about what social distancing should look like. Can you, can you describe some of that?
JJ:Yeah. So those, Oh man. So Trinity Bellwoods, as you say, is a very, very popular park, especially with young people. And some of the images of the first weekend of freedom where it did look like a frat house front lawn, right? Like, especially if you're taking a picture into the crowd, right. You're standing and you're taking a picture straight across the park and you don't have a good understanding of the depth of, you know, how, how deep this crowd is. People look totally jammed in. I'm sure if you were taking a picture from above, it would be a little bit different. You could see some of the space between them, but the photos that were in the paper, just like everyone drinking their paps blue ribbon and, you know, passing around a nice legal joint and definitely had that kind of crowd party vibe, the images that were shown in the paper that were infuriating to people across the country. So what they did there, and they've done this in parks all across North America, I believe is that they've painted circles, these white chalk circles in the open grassy areas of the park to delineate the spaces that people are allowed to sit in. And the, and each one of these circles is separated. You know, they're six feet apart. You can probably fit two people in one of these little circles and and, you know, have your drink and whatever. And as long as everyone is in their individual circle, these white chalk circles and the green lawn, then you're going to be fine. But I mean, the resulting images, these pictures that they showed in the paper that were photographs taken from above, because it perfectly illustrates this distancing and folks sitting in these white chalk circles on the lawn. They, I mean, they look like they're they're pieces on a, on a, on a, on a board game or something like that. Everyone's separated and in their perfect, like you expect, okay, I'm going to move, you know, the hipster with the curly mustache pass the family. Like you're going to jump over the family with the poodle or something. It's just goofy.
Christine:Can we talk a bit about public transit and what that's looking like in, in COVID social distancing times, because I'm here in Toronto, at least we know ridership is going up and transit has taken some measures to do things like indicate seats that you shouldn't sit in, or other distancing measures that as a blind person, you're not even really going to know about. And so you sort of, my experience is I'm sort of just fumbling my way through it and hoping everyone's going to be patient with each other, but can you give us some of the visuals of what public transit is doing in coven, social distancing times?
JJ:Yeah. So different transit systems have, have put different measures in place to try and keep people apart. In some cases there are stickers that have been put on the floor that indicate where individuals are supposed to stand. You stand here, you stand here, you stand here and that's gonna help keep people separated. I've seen in some transit systems, there are like bands of tape on the on the hand rails, especially the overhead rails that kind of indicate, you know, you put your hand here, you put your hand here just as a way of indicating people like this idea of like, if I stand in this spot with my hand here, I'm somehow safer. There's, there's tension. Of course, there's just tension for the, if you were someone who's on transit and not wearing a mask. Oh, there are a lot of you getting a lot of stink-eye from other PE other people on the bus on the, on the side.
Christine:I know I've been wondering a lot about, because as the transit vehicles get more full there's bound to be that tension. And that's, that's something I've kind of fretted about because yeah. Oh, Hey, you're not wearing a mask or you're too close to me, or I don't care about masks. And that's something I'm hyper aware about. Yeah, yeah.
JJ:Yeah. And in some cases, you know, you're getting actual confrontations where one person is going to you know, is going to point out a complaint to another, but in lots of cases, it's not that in lots of cases, it's the shifting away. I'm just going to move away from the person who's not wearing the mask. In some cases, you're going to get that angry. You're going to get that stink eye, some kind of shaking of the head at, you know, someone who comes on and who's speaking loudly on a cell phone, which in normal circumstances just means you're loud. But in these times, if you are speaking loudly, has Justin Trudeau famously said, maybe your moist talking as well, maybe that loud conversation is somehow spreading the COVID around. You know, there's all sorts of like the politics now of being in these enclosed spaces is a, is of course more pronounced. And and the, and the visual cues are are really important. Those, those nasty looks, those you know, the stinkeye, the shaking of the head, those are real indicators about how your fellow transit users are feeling about you. And now in those moments
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