Talk Description to Me

Episode 26 - Symbol Signs and Pictograms

December 05, 2020 Christine Malec and JJ Hunt Season 1 Episode 26
Talk Description to Me
Episode 26 - Symbol Signs and Pictograms
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Remember when we used to travel, and had to navigated places like airports and train stations? This week, Christine and JJ explore the international language of symbol signs and pictograms, used to help travellers find lodging, taxis, and restaurants, and determine where (and where not!) to relieve themselves.  But first, our descriptive elegy to Puerto Rico's Arecibo telescope, and a formal invitation to our upcoming Year in Review Zoom Event. All in one globe-trotting edition of Talk Description to Me.

For more information on our Year in Review Zoom Event, please visit our blog

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JJ Hunt:

Talk description to me with Christine Malec and JJ Hunt.

Christine Malec:

Hi, I'm Christine Malec.

JJ Hunt:

And I'm JJ Hunt. This is talk description to Me where the visuals of current events and the world around us get hashtag in description rich conversations.

Christine Malec:

Before we begin today, we wanted to make sure that you know about a really exciting event that's coming up for Talk Description to Me. It's a Year in Review, and it will be happening on Thursday, December 17, from 7:30pm to 9pm Eastern. And it's your turn to ask the questions. So the format will be that I will be moderating, JJ will be answering questions. And so if there is something from this crazy and unprecedented year that you are curious about the visuals of it's your turn to get to to ask the questions. And JJ is going to be doing on the spot description. So if you are interested, please email our email address which is talk description to me@gmail.com with RSVP in the subject line and we'll get back to you with details. And for today's episode, we're going to cover a few things. We're going to talk about the before time when people used to travel. And we're going to talk about some of the the non verbal, some of the pictographic signs that are commonly used. But before we do that, I came to JJ personally with this this request because this is as many of you will know this is astronomy as a subject close to my heart. And this week was the catastrophic but not entirely unexpected collapse of the Arecibo telescope in Puerto Rico. And so I asked JJ, could we just spend a few minutes on this and, and describe some of the visuals from there. And JJ kindly said, Yeah, let's have a look. So JJ, what what did you see this week with that?

JJ Hunt:

So I mean, this is a massive radio dish, a reflector dish that is precisely 1000 feet across. And it's built into a natural sinkhole in the lush jungles of Puerto Rico. And it's well known because of its contributions to science, but also because it's been used in a number of different movies. It was used in GoldenEye, in the James Bond series, and was used in Contact, I believe, as well. As for the way it looks, it's his big dish in a sinkhole. And it's a kind of a dirty gray at this at this point. It's a dirty gray surface on this on this, you know, concave dish. And there are three tall towers that are spaced out around the outer edges. And those are linked by cables that cross over the center of the dish. And in the center of this dish is a 900 ton instrument platform. And it's really a series of short catwalks and trusses. This is the beam steering mechanism. And it holds a sub reflector, which kind of looks like it's a god dome. It looks kind of like a little igloo actually. And it's held in the middle and it can move from side to side. And that's how they can direct you know, this reflector dish, the dish itself is stable and what moves is this instrument platform hanging above it and it's hanging like 500 feet above the dish. And what seems to have happened is that there were a few cables had snapped previously, and it had been deemed too dangerous and likely too difficult to repair safely. So it was going to be dismantled. And then the platform collapsed and it came crashing down into the dish below. So they're still working out exactly how that happened. But images from overhead give some clues so overhead, you can see the mangled trusses and parts of the catwalk that have smashed down into the broken dish and sections of the of the dirty gray surfaces whatever the paneling material is there missing. So you can actually see the green grass that's you know, below the dish. This dome is is crushed. It looks Like a piece of origami that's been totally flattened. That's the view from overhead. I also saw a really remarkable image, a shot taken from underneath the broken dish. So if you imagine yourself standing on a green lawn, and there's a giant bowl overhead, that's the perspective we've got in this one image. And again, you can see up through the Now bear framework of this dish with a surface of materials been knocked off. But you can also see this gash that has cut right through not only the surface, but the structure as well. It's if you if you imagine a largely intact bowl, but with a broken shard that's been removed, kind of like a pie slice. That's what you can see in this image. And it's I mean, it's it's devastating. It's heart wrenching, there's like twisted metal and shattered pieces of of this gray surfacing material. And it's, you know, it's sad. They're sad images, for sure.

Christine Malec:

Oh, such a noble noble object, rest in light. Thank you for that. And I want to mention, at the end, we often refer to our social media platforms. And I want to draw people's attention, particularly to Twitter, because there's a lot of events that happen and we don't cover them. But JJ will often tweet out something with a very brief description of an image or a website that has pictures with really good captions. And so I just want to highlight that that we are on Twitter at Talk Description. And if you want tidbits, throughout the week, JJ is really good at tweeting those out. So feel free to to follow us there. We're going to talk about travel. Do you remember that that's when you leave home, you pack a suitcase and you get excited and you make a plan. And you leave home and you go on a bunch of different kinds of vehicles and you go to new places. That's that's something we used to do not so much these days. But we thought we'd have a nostalgic little look back at those those olden days, which are hopefully to be a new days in. We don't know when. But I've always been intrigued by the images that are used for travel, particularly for when you're traveling in a country where you don't speak the language, there is a sort of universally understood set of images that are used to convey information. And so we thought it would be fun to take some of those and describe them. And, JJ, I know you are a globe trotting guy. So are these things that you have found useful?

JJ Hunt:

Oh, yeah, they're everywhere. And they're everywhere, as you say, in travel situations. If you're in airports and train stations. But they're also just around cities. I think most sighted people would be shocked at how many times a day they actually encounter these signs and they're not registering. Like where's the escalator? Oh, you're getting that information from one of these these symbol signs. Where's the escalator or the elevator? Can I smoke in here? Where's the parking lot? All of those are these kinds of pictographs signs. And they're extremely valuable communication tools, because they express instructions, rules, directions, information of all kinds. And they give you this information at a glance. And they can give the information to people who don't share a common spoken language, which is why they are so useful in travel situations. So my understanding of how this came to be is in the early 1970s, the American Institute of graphic arts worked with the US Department of Transportation ( it started with transportation) to create a set of standard symbols. So what they did was they studied symbols and icons that were already in use all around the world. And then they released 34 copyright free symbols in 1974, and then 16 more 1979. And these 50 symbols are the starting point for how all of these all of these icons have unfolded since, and there are now hundreds and hundreds of these that largely follow the same basic design principles. I'm sure there's debate in the design world about who created the aesthetic. But that design standard is so important because with the standardization, they can be expressed around the world, and you can see these things at a glance and interpret them quickly. So essentially, most of them are black and white illustrations. Simplified black and white illustrations, either thick white lines and silhouettes on a black background, often in a square or thick black lines and silhouettes on a white background. And again, there's variation, but that's the starting point. That's the standard. So to give you an idea of what these actually look like, let's start with the person. The figure, the male figure, is depicted standing straight, facing us. The legs are separated by a thin gap, and they end in rounded stumps, so no feet. Again, simplified, right? And there's often rounded corners in these designs, fewer hard edges and hard corners. So soft, rounded corners, stumps for feet, the arms of the male figure are straight down at the sides, sometimes with a little gap separating the arms from the body, sometimes without them. And again, rounded stumps, no hands. And the head is a perfect circle with no features and no neck, it's just floating above this boxy torso with likely with rounded shoulders, right, so we got this floating circle head above the body, that's the male figure. And the female figure is very much the same facing us the same legs. But the torso, the body is a silhouette of an A frame dress. And it's actually quite short. I hadn't noticed this before. When you put them side by side, you realize, oh, that skirt's not covering much.

Christine Malec:

It's above the knee.

JJ Hunt:

Quite a bit above the knee!

Christine Malec:

Wow.

JJ Hunt:

And the arms are the same the stumps the rounded stumps, no hands. But instead of being straight down at the sides of the body, they're held in an angle that follows the same line of the dress. And again, the head is the same the circle that's floating above. Now it is worth noting that the female figure is used to indicate places and things that are specifically for women like the women's washroom. The male icon is the default for anything that is gender neutral. So if they're showing an elevator icon, they use three male figures in a box with arrows pointing up and down to say this is the elevator. If it's a wheelchair icon, same thing, if it's an Immigration and Customs at an airport, you've got a version of a male passenger and a male customs agent, right? Everything is male, unless it's specifically for women, like bathrooms. And now that we've got the basic idea of what these figures look like, you can imagine how that design style applies to other other images. So now you can start to imagine other icons. So for example, the taxi, if you were looking for a taxi stand at an airport, the sign is a silhouette of a taxi that's facing us. So we're looking at the nose of the car. And it's a fairly boxy nose again with rounded corners, and two circles for headlights. And then there is a line a thick line that represents the roofline of the taxi. And there are two rounded stumps for tires because you're looking at the tire straight on so you're not seeing them as circles, you're seeing them from the front. So they just look like stumps, like the the the the bottom of legs or arms for the person. And then there's a you know, a clear open windshield and on the roof of the of the taxi is a small box with rounded corners. And that represents the taxi light that glows when a taxi is available for hire.

Christine Malec:

Is that how taxis always look? That's something I actually didn't know about, the boxy thing on top.

JJ Hunt:

Yeah, that's how that's how you know. If a taxi is driving down the street, they all have a little light on top, and if the if it's lit up, that means they're available for hire. If the light is off, that means they either have someone in the taxi or they're on their way to pick someone up and they can't be hired. So it's through that light. Yeah.

Christine Malec:

And so that box is unique to taxis? Whether lit or not that box is something you'd only see on a car that's a taxi.

JJ Hunt:

Yeah, that's the only time I've ever seen something like that is on a taxi. Even Uber's and Lifts don't have them. They'll sometimes have one in the windshield, a little light that indicates they're from Uber or Lyft. But this one on top, that's very much a taxi thing.

Christine Malec:

Oh, okay.

JJ Hunt:

Yeah, yeah. So a restaurant for example, the sign, the International Sign for a restaurant is a knife and fork standing side by side. And again with like rounded corners, right. So the fork has rounded tines, the knife has a rounded tip. So it's like a butter knife. And there are other versions of this. But again, even in places where a knife and fork aren't necessarily the the utensils you're going to be using in that country, if you're in an airport situation or in a government building, that's the kind of sign that you'll see to indicate where a restaurant is. A bar. I quite like the bar one. The bar icon is very stylish. It's a martini glass silhouette. And there's one circle off center near the bottom of the glass that represents the olive in the martini.

Christine Malec:

Oh, oh how lovely.

JJ Hunt:

Very classy, eh?

Christine Malec:

What about lodging?

JJ Hunt:

Ah! So there are a couple of different lodging ones. The one that's my favorite is a little bed, and you're looking at the bed from the side. And there's a one of these figures that sleeping in the bed, or not. And then there's just a peaked roof above the bed. That's it. So you don't get walls, you don't get anything else, it's just a roof over a bed. That's what you want? Good, we got that we got. A roof and a bed for you, right over here.

Christine Malec:

How about fuel?

JJ Hunt:

So for gas stations if you're driving down the road, and so you know, there's a gas station 200 meters ahead or something like that, it's the fuel pump is that is the image. So it's a rectangle, and then at the top of the rectangle, there's a window of the opposite color. So it's either a black icon with a white window or a white icon with a black window. And then at the side, there's a hose. That's the hose you use to fill your car. And then maybe there's a drip, a black drip, either in the corner or on the front of the icon, or offset near the upper left or something. So black drip to indicate "here's the gas", and then you get the pump right there.

Christine Malec:

I wonder about evolving things. So for example, is there a new icon for electric vehicles charging?

JJ Hunt:

There is. The interesting thing about these icons, when they're new, is that the only way these icons work is if there's already a cultural understanding.

Christine Malec:

Right.

JJ Hunt:

We need that cultural language to already exist. So with electric vehicles, it's relatively new, right? So we're still working it out. So I've got a variety of different ones. They all seem to be based on the same thing, the pump. Exactly the same look as what we just described for the gas, except instead of the hose that's coming out the side with a nozzle on the end, it's a hose with a plug. A cord, a cable. And then in that little window at the top, there's a lightning bolt to show you that it's electrical. Oh wow! Oh cool. So yeah, so that's how they seem to be indicating that.

Christine Malec:

How about Wi Fi? Free Wi Fi available.

JJ Hunt:

So WiFi. There is a word Wi Fi logo, so Wi Fi, capital W, lowercase I capital F lowercase I, and they're separated by the yin yang swoop. So it's a horizontal rectangle with curved edges but with that yin yang separation, that swooping line, so it's a black with white writing on one side, and white with black writing on the other. Oh, so that's the word version of it. And then the pure symbol version of it, which is often shown, is a dot. And then above the dot are concentric arches that are increasing in size. So a small arch right above the dot, and then a slightly larger one above that, and then a slightly larger one above that. That's broadcasting. In general terms, that's a broadcasting icon. And it's specifically used in that configuration with the dot and these concentric arches going up. That's how it's used for Wi Fi. You'll see it in different - I've got other examples of that coming up where it's used in different situations. But that's a broadcasting notion, these concentric arches going out.

Christine Malec:

So obviously, iconic signs are things that are evolving over time, and what kinds of changes can you see when you look at the way signs have been used over decades?

JJ Hunt:

Well, it's interesting in some cases, you know, the icons are there, they're dated, they're antiquated, but they're still in use. And that seems to be okay. The the example that comes to mind is the telephone. So if you're looking for a public telephone somewhere (if they exist at all) the icon for that is a telephone receiver, one that was in use from the 1930s through the 80s, and 90. So this is a rounded handle. It's kind of a flattened C shape. And there's a puck on both ends. So that's a puck for the earpiece and a puck for the mouthpiece. And for the icon it's shown in profile with no coiled cord, so it's just this handset. And in fact, we use this in our logo, right? So we took the Audio Description logo which is a D followed by three round brackets like we were talking about before, this broadcasting idea. The three round brackets, or parentheses, and these follow the same curve as the D. That's audio description logo. So we kind of riff on that, right? We took the D, just D, no A, and we followed that with three of these telephone receivers with a slightly exaggerated curve, that increase in size. And that's how we riffed on the audio description logo. We put these telephone handsets for talking description to us, right? And it works because that's an icon that is recognizable. I should, by the way, thank our in-house graphic designer, my 14 year old, who helped us out on that one.

Christine Malec:

Yay!

JJ Hunt:

Minecraft and graphic design. He's a good guy to have around! Now, these phones are

Christine Malec:

What a guy. very uncommon in usage. You don't go into people's homes these days and find the old fashioned phones with these kinds of handles on it. But for signage and iconography, they're very common. So it's dated, but it's not going to cause any offence, so it's likely going to be around for a while. But then Uh huh, right. you get other ones like the accessibility icon. Some people knw it as the wheelchair icon, or the accessible parking icon,

JJ Hunt:

"That's a handicapped parking spot," Very rarely in the proper name is the international symbol of access the I S A. And, you know, people have complicated feelings about this icon. And some people don't have complicated feelings at all, they just hate it. It has come to symbolize not only wheelchair users, but all accessibility. And purely from a design perspective, it's a very highly successful icon because it's immediately recognizable. It's known around the world. But implied within it are some very dated attitudes. And I think it's also linked with dated language, right? One of the few times you'll still hear people se the term "handic pped" is with reference to this icon and parking, right? conversation will you hear someone's say "That's an accessible parking spot".

Christine Malec:

Right.

JJ Hunt:

So it's linked with all sorts of negative things. Now, the old design, which has been around since the 1960s, is again, a male figure seated in profile with a one arm sticking out in front parallel with the lap. And there's a broken outline of a circle like a ring, that's, that's the wheel as part of the chair. And this, this circle goes from the smaller the back and curves down and around to the back of the legs. And that's that's the image, it's often white on a blue background. Right. And the main complaint, as I understand it, is the the passivity of the figure in this chair. So the figure in the wheelchair is leaning back slightly. There's no motion implied, it's as if this icon is sitting there waiting to be pushed around. Ah yes. And so there's a new design that I think The Accessible Icon Project came up with, a new design for this, which is the male figure leaning forward. So just the sheer pitch of that torso changes everything. And then the arm is back behind the body bent at the elbow with the rounded end (so this is the hand again, this kind of like the rounded stump for the hand) that's just above this ring it's just above the wheel.

Christine Malec:

Right, right.

JJ Hunt:

So it's as if they're about to grip and spin the wheel behind them.

Christine Malec:

So there's a whole other subset of signs that are about don't do this or warning! Hazard! So maybe we could start with just just for fun with the don't do this indicators. And so what sort of things are indicated as an you're not allowed to whatever in this space.

JJ Hunt:

Essentially anything that we've just described, all of those signs can be turned into a "do not" simply by encircling it in red, so a red ring around it with a red cross line through the middle. That can turn anything into a do not do this. So no drinking you get the the martini glass and there's a line through it. Any do not enter, do not do this. The warning signs are similar but different. So the warning signs take the same kind of design aesthetic, but they add a few new elements so that they are recognizable as warnings. So they take the basic shape instead of being a square in black and white. There are often a golden yellow sometimes almost an orangey yellow triangle with a bottom is flat and the point where there's one point at the top like a peaked roof And they're golden yellow. And they have black borders, and black symbols and icons in the middle. And you'll see these these can be anywhere from like on the side of a road or on buildings, construction sites, but they can also be on packages as well. These kinds of symbols can be found there sometimes on packages, they are white with red outlines, instead of the the yellow orangey. Color with black, those tend to be more for road signs. And, you know, again, the aesthetic is very similar, but it's it's tweaked a little bit, right. And because they have to be very specific, sometimes the images are more detailed. So poison is the classic, right? This is a line drawing, sometimes a silhouette, but most often a line drawing of a skull with crossed bones behind it, or sometimes below the skull. And these bones are like femurs. So these are long bones, with nobly ends. They look like the pirate ship, right? That's the this is the same look as the skull and crossbones as a pirate. It's very sinister. And I've always thought it looks intentional, you know, like this poison, it's out to get you! It's not just that you have to be careful because it might accidentally hurt you. That always makes me feel like it's out to get me when I see this poison icon.

Christine Malec:

This one is one that I've wondered a lot about, because I know that this really extreme example. But in the debate about nuclear power, the issue of nuclear waste is extremely relevant, especially for the long term. And so people have spent much thought on how can we make an icon that people will understand 10,000 years from now, if there are still people when there's no cultural continuity at all. And so I hear you saying that the image looks very menacing and intentional. But I also hear you saying, it's what you see on pirate ships. And so we've grown up with it. And so we know it's menacing, unintentional, honestly, there's some cultures where skulls and bones are honored relics of the dead and they're kept in people's homes.

JJ Hunt:

Yes. Right. So is that what you're indicating with this sign?

Christine Malec:

Right! Is this a relicuary of our honored dead? I don't know. So. Yeah, unanswerable question.

JJ Hunt:

Yeah.

Christine Malec:

But it's just something I wonder about in iconography, how much of it is that we're used to it?

JJ Hunt:

That's a really good question. I mean, with with regards to the nuclear icon, there are a couple that are in use. The one is a circle with three, what looked like pie slices coming out from this circle so that they don't have the tips of the of the pie slice because they would otherwise be poking right into the heart of the circle. So does that make sense? As a as an image, the circle with three perfectly spaced out pie slices around the outside?

Christine Malec:

Okay, I understand it, but that's totally meaningless.

JJ Hunt:

Yeah. Why is that, exactly?

Christine Malec:

It doesn't indicate anything to me.

JJ Hunt:

There's another version that's kind of a stylized version of the atoms. So you've got a circle in the middle, and then you've got three oblong shapes going around it, oblong rings going around it in a pattern. So these would be representing the the atom?

Christine Malec:

Um hm.

JJ Hunt:

Again, maybe if you've got a cultural understanding of what an atom looks like, maybe that tells you something. But I'm not sure it's enough. I think you're absolutely right. I'm not sure that these symbols are entirely clear on their own. The one that almost it's a favorite warning sign of mine, because it's on everything, it's all over the place, it's just this yellow triangular sign with the black outline. And then right in the middle of it is a big, black exclamation point. That's it.

Christine Malec:

Ha ha!

JJ Hunt:

And I kinda like this one, because it's like, "Listen, I ain't got no time to explain. Just be warned!"

Christine Malec:

Wow, that would stop you in your tracks. I don't know what to do now.

JJ Hunt:

"Warning. I'm not telling you what I'm warning you about. But be warned!"

Christine Malec:

One of the best use signs I ever heard described was a, it was on the side of a pop machine. And it was a stick figure. A stick figure crushed underneath the pop machine and the sign said do not shake machine.

JJ Hunt:

There are some great ones like that. There's a whole series of funny ones, which are these poor stick figures falling and slipping and tumbling. And sometimes they're hilarious. Like there's things crushing them, and the slipping ones are really wonderful. So you'll have like a cliff that's indicated by just, like an L shape. So just an outline of a drop off. And the poor stick figure is just tumbling over the edge of it."Ahhh!" That's it. That's the whole thing.

Christine Malec:

Oh! Oh my God.

JJ Hunt:

Look out, poor stick figures might fall to their death right here.

Christine Malec:

That's pretty clear.

JJ Hunt:

Yeah, that's clear. That's clear. I like that one.

Christine Malec:

Couldn't they make the arms windmilling, though? Like make the motion lines?

JJ Hunt:

Ha! Yeah, exactly. Put some mothion lines there!

Christine Malec:

Ok, we shouldn't be laughing. This isn't funny.

JJ Hunt:

No, no. This is a serious warning! Exclamation point!

Christine Malec:

Exclamation point! Ha ha!

JJ Hunt:

People do have fun with these though, especially because

Christine Malec:

Ha ha ha! the design itself is so iconic and so easily recognizable.

JJ Hunt:

And what I love about this is often the red line, the People then take them and do kind of funny things with them. And sometimes they're not intending to be funny, but they are. Sometimes they are. The signs telling men where they should and should not pee. I've always found these hilarious. And I'm not sure, sometimes it's hard to know, are these joke signs, or are these real signs? So you'll have this figure, this red line crosses the exact spot where the dotted line comes out stick figure with the floating head, peeing. And the pee is i dicated by a dotted line dit-d t-dit-dit, in a waterfall shape oming out of the groin area. of the body. Like, for medesty!

Christine Malec:

Ha!

JJ Hunt:

You gotta have the line cut across right there.

Christine Malec:

But wait, I have to know is one of the stick arms kind of in the middle holding....

JJ Hunt:

No! But this... so sometimes you have ones where they're just standing straight, and there are no arms because you're looking at his profile, so you don't get any arms. But in some, the stick figure doesn't have any arms and the line is bent. So it's as if they're leaning forward at the hips, like the hips are forward!

Christine Malec:

Ha ha ha!

JJ Hunt:

But my favorite is sometimes the figure standing straight and one arm is bent behind with the hands on the hips. It's like you can almost hear the stick figure going"Ahhhh."

Christine Malec:

Oh, ha ha!

JJ Hunt:

It's just a bit too accurate. And I'm not sure is that a real sign?

Christine Malec:

I'm Christine Malec from Talk description to Me. Throughout this wild year, ideas and requests from listeners like you have guided our description rich conversations. Well, now it's your turn to ask the questions directly.

JJ Hunt:

On December 17 at 7:30pm Eastern, we're hosting a live Year in Review zoom event. Ask questions about the visuals of the world we share and be a part of our final episode of the season.

Christine Malec:

To book your spot email talk description to me@gmail.com

Year in Review invite
The Arecibo Telescope
Pictograms and Symbol Signs
International Symbol of Access
Warning signs