Talk Description to Me

Episode 68 - The Taliban Takes Afghanistan

September 11, 2021 Christine Malec and JJ Hunt Season 3 Episode 68
Talk Description to Me
Episode 68 - The Taliban Takes Afghanistan
Chapters
1:28
Timeline
5:57
Taking the Presidential Palace
11:30
The Evacuation
23:06
Ongoing protests
27:49
Editorial Cartoons
Talk Description to Me
Episode 68 - The Taliban Takes Afghanistan
Sep 11, 2021 Season 3 Episode 68
Christine Malec and JJ Hunt

It's been a harrowing  few months in Afghanistan with the Taliban advancing during the US military withdrawal. In mid August, the Taliban took control of Kabul and the chaos peaked. In this episode, JJ describes some key scenes from the Taliban takeover including the seizure of the Presidential Palace and the desperate evacuation at the Kabul airport.  Then Christine asks about ongoing protests by the women of Afghanistan, and how US political cartoonists have responded to these troubling and complex events.

Many news organizations have compiled complete timelines of the US withdrawal from Afghanistan. We found this article by The Washington Post helpful in our research despite the inaccessible visuals.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/08/16/taliban-timeline/

Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/TalkDescriptionToMe)

Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

It's been a harrowing  few months in Afghanistan with the Taliban advancing during the US military withdrawal. In mid August, the Taliban took control of Kabul and the chaos peaked. In this episode, JJ describes some key scenes from the Taliban takeover including the seizure of the Presidential Palace and the desperate evacuation at the Kabul airport.  Then Christine asks about ongoing protests by the women of Afghanistan, and how US political cartoonists have responded to these troubling and complex events.

Many news organizations have compiled complete timelines of the US withdrawal from Afghanistan. We found this article by The Washington Post helpful in our research despite the inaccessible visuals.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/08/16/taliban-timeline/

Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/TalkDescriptionToMe)

JJ Hunt:

Talk description to me with Christine Malec and JJ Hunt.

Christine Malec:

Hi, I'm Christine Malec.

JJ Hunt:

And I'm JJ Hunt. This is talk description to me where the visuals of current events and the world around us get hashed out in description rich conversations.

Christine Malec:

If you're like us, you've been following the unfolding story in Afghanistan over the last few weeks. And sometimes we cover events in different ways. And with this, what we have done is waited a little bit because when you wait a bit, you get a broader perspective of images and a bit more context. And so today, we're going to be talking about the visuals of what's been going on in Afghanistan. And some of the, the images from there. And also, we're going to talk about some of the reactions as well. So JJ, should we maybe just start with a brief timeline to contextualize things?

JJ Hunt:

Yeah, absolutely. So in February 2020, President Donald Trump's administration signed a peace deal with the Taliban. And in that, in that deal in the US promised withdrawal by May 2021. Then on April 14, President Biden announced that he would move ahead with that withdrawal. And they, the US started to withdraw in May. And it was announced that it would be done by September 11. And that date was later moved to August 31. At the time of the announcement that the withdrawal would begin, the United States had 2500 troops in Afghanistan, that they had spent trillions of dollars, and the US had lost the lives of more than 2000 military members. So in May, the withdrawal began, and the Taliban immediately mobilized. So obviously, it's outside of our scope to break down the ins and outs of the US withdrawal and the Taliban advance. If getting a full complete timeline is something that you're interested in. There's lots of lots of timeline articles available online, I used the Washington Post's timeline articles, I found they were very good. We can link to those in our show notes. But over the course of the summer, between May and August, the situation spiraled out of control with the Taliban advancing in various places, taking regions then taking capitals. And on August 12 the situation became so bad that that the US announced that it would send 3000 troops to help evacuate US diplomats, US citizens, and Afghans who had aided the US during the war. So it was originally announced to be 3000. Then they later upped that to 5000. And then at the very last minute, another 1000 paratroopers were added to that number. And things at that point, were moving very quickly and getting bad very quickly. Canada shut down its embassy, the UK shut down its embassy, Australia, Saudi Arabia, New Zealand, South Korea, the Czech Republic all shut down, and at least partially evacuated their personnel. By August 15, the Taliban had taken the capital of Kabul and had taken the presidential palace. And that's kind of the timeline that we're looking at. Since then. The country has been more or less in Taliban control. There have been protests in the streets to some extent, and we can get into that in a bit.

Christine Malec:

In a lot of other events that we've covered, there's kind of a progression where in the moment, you get a lot of video from people on the scene and just taken from their cell phones and formerly and then there becomes more press video available. And there's kind of an evolution of the visuals that we get on the outside. Did that happen in this case as well?

JJ Hunt:

It did. The was live coverage because there were lots of journalists in a country who had been there for the transition. It but it got chaotic, of course and the videos, the images were pouring into to to Western media, and it was it was a little bit disjointed at first like what what are we seeing images of how do these clips packages relate to each other? And then since then you're absolutely right, Chris, people have been able to take some of that footage and come up with with timelines and storylines. And so there are some scenes that have come together. One scene in particular, when the Taliban was taking the Presidential Palace on August 15, that is a scene that that seems to be understood. And there's certainly lots of visuals around that. And then there's another scene that was happening during the evacuation at the airport in Kabul. So those are kind of two specific events, where lots of information was coming out in the moment of and then since then, some of the specific stories from within those events have have become clearer.

Christine Malec:

So what's the story? Let's start with the presidential palace, what's sort of the narrative or the story that has come out in visual terms.

JJ Hunt:

So the Taliban took control of the Presidential Palace on August 15, with what seems to be very little resistance. Most of the images from the inside of the presidential palace came from Al Jazeera, there was a reporter in the room as they say, and there were some of some photos and images and film clips that were being taken by the Taliban members who were who were storming the palace. But I don't think those have been released to Western media. So most of what we've been seeing it has been through Al Jazeera. The palace itself is known as the Arg, built in the 1880s. It's a very it's a castle like palace. In fact, it once had a moat surrounding it's a very solid looking building with grey stone walls crenelated rooflines. So from the outside, it's fortified, it looks like a like a fortified castle. But inside, it's a it's a formal institution. So there's lots of almost blonde light brown, maybe teak wood paneling, exposed, polished timbers, carved wood, doorframes, lush carpets, brass wall sconces and formal oil paintings. It's like a formal building that most of us in, you know, Canada, the US or the UK would be quite comfortable in the aesthetic isn't exactly the same as, as our formal institutions and, you know, presidential residences, but they're pretty close like this is the the aesthetic is quite close. And so some of the most remarkable footage and images come from the moments when the Taliban were actually in the building and in the president's office. So it looks like from the photos and videos that I've seen somewhere around 15 men and these members of the Taliban are not wearing their there are no official uniforms. They're wearing more traditional Afghan clothing, so like tunics over loose fitting pants, long vests, and I mean vests that are like waistcoats, not military vests, heads covered in different ways. Some in traditional hats, some in wraped scarves, all the men have beards. Some are, you know, long and bushy. But some of the younger men have just shorter, more trimmed beers. And in many of these men are armed with assault rifles. And in the footage released by Al Jazeera, these men walk through the seemingly empty palace, there's no resistance, there's no security in any of this footage. And they kind of walk through conference rooms, they walk through formal offices, they take out their cell phones and take a few pictures. At one point, they're in something that looks like a sitting room. And and a young Taliban member in a camouflage jacket, he takes down an official Afghanistan flag, and he rolls it up into a tube that's about the size of an army just rolls up the flag. And then he casually puts it aside on what looks like a marble mantel piece in the in the corner of the room. It was really casual. There was no ceremony about it. In fact, no one else in the room was paying any attention to this. But for a lot of commentators and you know and news anchors, this was one of those moments they're like, "The flag is down. Someone took the flag down in the presidential palace and just rolled it up and tucked it in the corner." And then at another point, about 15 men gathered behind the President's desk. This is a large formal wooden desk. It's got a yellow sheet of protective glass on top and the front of the desk has you know wood carvings on it. There's a an oil painting a very colorful oil painting hanging on the wall behind the desk and there are about a dozen Men who stand behind the desk and around the desk, two men sit in front, and one man sits behind the desk. And he's got an assault rifle that's sitting on the desk in front of them. And they they all pose, they stand and pose for the film crew that's there from AlJazeera, and probably their own photographers, and a couple of them have cell phones out. And it's difficult to read people's expressions when you're not well versed in the culture. So I'm a little bit hesitant to do so. But I would have to say that my understanding would be that these men have stern expressions, not there's no smiling, there's no celebrating, the expressions on these men tend to be quite stern, but subdued. And in fact, a few of these men look... They look almost uncomfortable. There's a, there's so for example, they're seated men in front of the desk, and one of the men looks like he's fighting back a smirk, as he's posing for the cameras, like he doesn't quite know what to do with a smile or non smile, he's stern, but there's maybe a little bit of a smirk in his face. And the other man who's sitting down, clearly doesn't know what to do with his hands. So first, he puts them on the arms of his chair, and then he moves them to his lap. And then the camera moves and comes a little bit closer, and he keeps glancing into different cameras, like he's unsure where to look.

Christine Malec:

That's a bizarrely human moment. That's a weirdly human moment. I'm thinking like, what you're describing, it doesn't convey violent overthrow or violent takeover. Are there other sets of images that I don't even want to ask? But are there other sets of images that do depict the violent parts?

JJ Hunt:

Yeah, most of the images that I have seen, most images going around are not about active violence, but the threat of violence of looming violence. So there was a lot of people escaping at the airport. And that scene turned violent, not because anyone was shooting anyone else. It wasn't that people were being massacred. But people were so desperate to get out that the scene ended in, in death. And that's in no small part because of the threat of violence. And some of the protests that I've seen footage of don't show acts of violence, but there's guns being fired into the air, and people responding with such incredible emotion, because this whole situation has a threat of violence. So that's what I that's what I've seen, I'm sure there are moments that are happening that are of actual physical violence. I just haven't seen those clips. I haven't seen those images.

Christine Malec:

The scenes at the airport were often referred to in the news coverage. Can we talk a bit more about that and detail?

JJ Hunt:

Yeah, it was pretty harrowing. The footage from the the airport in Cabo, which I think was more or less than the evacuation was happening, of just about the exact same time as the presidential palace was being taken over. So thousands of people stormed the airport and flooded the tarmac and flooded the runways. Just desperate to get on any of the departing planes. And this is the public airport. This is the This isn't a military airport. This is where commercial flights were also flying out of so just desperately trying to get on any kind of plane. The members of the crowd just based on the on looking through the crowd footage. They appear to be locals, not ex pats, diplomats and so forth, but mostly Afghan citizens. Many, my understanding is, we're people who either fought with the US against the Taliban, or people who feel like they are in immediate danger with the Taliban taking over, maybe because they are sympathizers with the US or maybe because they have they've had some personal experience with the Taliban, or just feel the threat of that. Like that's obviously not for me to say but my understanding is that the people who were at the airport were Afghan citizens, desperate to get out and the crowds were so out of control. And people's behavior was so desperate that seven people died on the runways trying to flee. I saw one video clip filmed from the tarmac. And this was an overhead boarding tunnel that's connected to a plane's open passenger door. So you know, if you're in an airport, they've got those extendable tunnels that connect waiting rooms in the terminal to the parked planes when it's time for boarding, you know those tunnels?

Christine Malec:

Um hm.

JJ Hunt:

So in this clip, the tunnel which has glass walls, is packed is absolutely stuffed with people. And outside because this film clip was taken from the tarmac looking up toward this tunnel, there's what looks like a series of ladders or maybe a service staircase that leads from the tarmac to that point where the tunnel and plane connect. So, again, imagining you're boarding a plane, this would be the side entrance at the end of the tunnel, where a passenger might hand over a baby stroller or a bag that's too big for the overhead compartment and a flight attendant or someone would would run that down the service staircase to the ground crew that's loading bags at the hold? That staircase. That staircase in the footage that I saw from the airport on this mad day of evacuation was so overrun with people climbing it that you really can't even see the stairs or the railings, it's just a column of people scrambling to try and get up and get into that tunnel and onto that plane. So there are clips of people on the runway running beside and underneath massive military planes that are trying to take off. If you've ever been at an airport, where you board the plane onto the tarmac, not into the terminal, you know, that feeling of standing next to one of these big commercial airliners, right? It's really intimidating.

Christine Malec:

Ya.

JJ Hunt:

The sound of the idling engine engines the the heat from both the tarmac and the plane itself, it just feels unsafe to be close to a plane of that size.

Christine Malec:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

JJ Hunt:

But in several of these clips, hundreds of people are running down the runway alongside an American military plane, and people are clinging to the wheels, they're clinging to the landing gear, they're climbing up the side of the plane. And this one plane in particular, this is a C 17 military transport plane, it's 174 feet long. And it's got a wingspan about the same as 170 foot wingspan is a big, wide plain steep gray in color with two huge jets on the underside of each wing. And in this one clip that got played over and over and over again by kind of every news agency around the camera operator. So our point of view is we are standing on the crowded runway as the plane approaches from our left passing to our right. And as it gets closer, we start to get a sense of really just how close we are to this plane, maybe only a few dozen feet from the hall and we are quite close. And then when the big swooping steel gray nose of the plane is in front of us. That's really when you can see for the first time that the wheels and the front landing gear are covered by people clinging to it.

Christine Malec:

Oh no!

JJ Hunt:

And then strangely in the middle of this scene there's a man in a yellow headscarf and a red vest who looks directly into the camera at us and smiles as he waves by like he's a cheerful participant in the start of a marathon.

Christine Malec:

Gasp! What?

JJ Hunt:

It's just so, it's just out of the blue. It's very disconcerting. But the plane keeps rolling by quite quickly, and the wing passes right over our heads. So as like one jet in front of us the other jet behind us. That's how close we are to the body of this plane. And the Jets are just massive that they look like big steel gray coffee cups on their side, maybe six feet in diameter at the front and these are right overhead. And when that wing is passing by, that's when we are presented with the people who are clinging to the side of the plane, there's an odd bump out on this C 17 military transport plane that's under the wings near the belly of the plane on both sides. This is for the landing gear. It's a strange little bump out. And there are people who climbed onto that onto the bump out and sat on it clinging to it trying perhaps to get in and under as the as the landing gear would eventually be lifted up.

Christine Malec:

Gasp! Ugh.

JJ Hunt:

Ah, terrifying, terrifying. Apparently, two of the deaths that were at the airport came from being crushed by the landing gear as that plane took off.

Christine Malec:

Oh!

JJ Hunt:

So just terrible, just terrible. There are also photos from inside one of those 17 military planes I'm not, I'm not 100% sure that it's the exact same plane that I've just described. Again, these clips are really short. They're shown everywhere. They're often in montages and clips packages. So it's very difficult to piece together a narrative of a moment like this. But the photo that I've seen there are several of them from inside one of these c 17th shows a plane packed with seated Afghans. So the crew of the plane decided to save as many people as possible they opened up the back door so the back of the plane under the tail. Just drops down so that military vehicles can usually drive up into the plane. But instead they just scooped up, they let as many people get in as possible. And they packed 800 people onto the floor of this airplane, a C 17. When it's outfitted with seats, so they can put benches in, they can put proper seats in if they're planning on it, it can hold 300 passengers.

Christine Malec:

Gasp!

JJ Hunt:

But with no seats, they packed 800 people, 650 adults and about 150 kids is my understanding. And I've got one of the pictures here in front of me. And it's taken from what I'm guessing is like a cockpit window that looks back into the cabin, it's from high up. So it's near the, you know, we're looking down from kind of the top inside of the plane looking back down the inside of this hall. And it's very basic, the inside of this plane, it's just, it's just a shell. Because there's nothing in it. It's a cargo plane. And you know, the size of the plane on the inside of the curved walls, and there's some candles and some equipment that I can't quite make out. And then on the ceiling of the plane, again, it's a curved ceiling. And you can there are some pipes that are that are visible pipes that are exposed. But otherwise, it's just a big open space and the floor is crammed with people, no rows, no discernible groups of people just a single mass of people, most of them facing toward us. Lots of the people in the plane are men, probably more than half of I would say would be my guest. But lots of women and lots of kids to a few of the people are wearing COVID masks, but not that many. I would say more people in western dress than more traditional Afghan dress. So collar shirts and pants for the men. Not a lot of head headwear or head scarves on men but head scarves on the women. And the crowd is so big that the people and and so deep, that the people who are closest to us can be clearly identified. We're close enough to them. their point of view is such that we can you can read the tense expressions on people's faces the these are individual people, they're several babies in arms, including one sucking on a plastic bottle. There are some kids that look directly into the camera as kids often do. There's a woman in a tan headscarf and a black COVID mask that matches her her clothing and she's sitting with a black person her lap, she's got a hand to her forehead. So up close, the people are close enough to the camera that we can see them as individuals. But the plane is so big and the crowd is so thick that near the back of the plane, our point of view is such that the people are out of focus, it's more of just a blurred crowd. And my understanding is that everyone who made it onto that plane did leave cobble safely. And they all landed in Qatar, as refugees.

Christine Malec:

Oh my goodness. There have been images since then two from within Afghanistan, some actually around protests. Can you talk a bit about those?

JJ Hunt:

Yeah, I've seen some footage and some some images from protests, including one that was on September 7. And some of this footage is making its way to us despite the fact that a lot of journalists have been prevented from filming. So the footage is it the amount of footage that we're getting is now it there's less of it, it's shorter, tighter clips, because people are filming surreptitiously is my understanding. So the footage that's been released of September 7 showed up protest in Kabul. The protesters were mostly women are all wearing headscarves all wearing flags, long floor length garments, often carrying purses on shoulder straps, and many of them but not by no means all wearing COVID masks but certainly more than in that in that image from the plane. And a number of these women had very simple handmade signs. So these are like just sheets of white printer paper with slogans. You know, written on them in black pen or markers. I started I spotted one clip of a group of women with signs written both in English and in modified Arabic and one of the signs read "women do not go back". Another sign said "women participation at all levels". And then at another point I saw a sign that said that had "hashtag sanction Pakistan". So those are the kinds of very simple signs, not a lot of them. Again, the clips are often chaotic, very short, difficult to organize them into a cohesive description. So from a content point of view, I can say that a lot of these clips are there. They're all seem to be filmed outside in The streets often with cars on the road, maybe bicycles on the road vendors on the sidewalk, the streets packed with people. So I think a lot of these protests are, I'm guessing based on that, somewhat spontaneous. Because these are not in cleared spaces, these are still being used by people selling food and whatever, lots of shouting some flag waving. So Afghanistan's official flag is is waived with some regularity in these protests. It's a flag that has an equal vertical bars of black and then red. And then green in the middle of the flag is an ornate line drawing and white. That's the emblem of Afghanistan. And it features two sheaves of wheat that basically encircle a mosque. And in some of the clips, the crowds gather at what appear to be checkpoints, or at least Taliban vehicles. These are pickup trucks with armed men in military vests. So they're standing in the back of the pickup truck, sometimes they have, you know, machine guns over their own shoulder, sometimes they're manning Roof Mounted machine guns. And some of these Taliban soldiers, if they're on the ground in a protest, you know, they're in the protest, and they see a camera operator, they will approach the camera operator. So a lot of the clips that I've seen end with one of these men in military vests and head wrap, coming straight toward the camera, extending a hand covering the lens, and then pushing the camera toward the ground. So that's how some of these clip ends, clips end. And in at least one video, the camera operator has their whatever it is camera or phone, leave it on, and it's at their side as they're running down the sidewalk. And there are misters machine gunfire that's eclipsing all other sound and these clips, and it was reported alongside the release of that clip that that Taliban members were firing over the heads of protesters to scatter the crowds. The other thing that's really interesting about these clips that are coming to us that are making their way here to Canada, and I presume in the US, and you know, through the BBC and whatnot, is that many of the videos have large blurry circles over the faces of the protesters. And some if it's a if it's a row of people that have a big blurry strip at head level, that blocks out the faces of all of the people who are participating in this protest. Of course, this is to protect the identity of protesting citizens, you know, you don't want to be releasing footage of protesters and having that footage be, you know, get to the to the wrong hands.

Christine Malec:

Another potent form of protest can be political cartoons or satire. I understand that there's a roaring trade in that going on on this issue. Can you tell us about some of that?

JJ Hunt:

Ya a lot of editorial cartoons, in papers all around the world. But frankly, I went to the US papers to look at what was being siad, what was being drawn and showcased there. It's really interesting, this moment of the evacuation at the airport. Obviously, we talk a lot about the iconic images of events, right? What's the iconic image of this scene of this event of this moment in time. And it seems to be the case that this plane trying to take off with hundreds and hundreds of Afghans desperate to get on, that seems to be an image that gets used over and over and over again, in political cartoons. So I've got, I've got one here that is kind of like a little mini two panels. So there's one picture of a cartoon version of this plane, it's kind of a little round nose and the propellers look kind of cute and it looks kind of plump. And then that exact same plane and kind of a side panel is crashed nose down into the ground. And, and the plane that's doing well is labeled is labeled successful evacuation. And the plane that's crashed is labeled America's credibility.

Christine Malec:

Ehh!

JJ Hunt:

And the title of the this little comic was "It was the best of times it was the worst of times." I've got another one here that shows the that plane which is very distinctive in shape because of those bump outs under the wings and the two jets on either wing. It's flying over us so it's basically silhouetted against the sky. And there are, you know, sheets of paper flying from the back of the plane and a cell phone and a couple of shoes. And a few silhouetted people falling from the plane, and then closest to us. So we get a little bit more detail is a balding white man in a blue suit with a blue tie who's falling from the plane, and he is labeled Biden.

Christine Malec:

Gasp. Oh.

JJ Hunt:

Then there are the comparisons to that moment. in Saigon. There's an iconic photo, the fall of Saigon. It's dubbed, that was taken in April 1975, as US diplomats, purportedly were being evacuated from Vietnam. In this photo, this fall of Saigon photo is, you know, considered one of the most iconic photos of that generation. It features a Huey helicopter, which is very strongly associated with the Vietnam War, touching down on the upper rooftop of a building, there's a series of kind of tiered roof tops on this building. And the helicopter is is touching down on the on the on the uppermost rooftop, the smallest one, and there are a series of makeshift ladders that have been set up to get this gathered crowd up to the rooftop of the building. And onto this helicopter. What's interesting, there are a couple things that are interesting about this. First of all, this is known as an image of the US Embassy being evacuated all of the US diplomats getting on the plane and leaving or getting on the helicopter and leaving, because this was the last helicopter in Vietnam. In fact, that's not the case. This wasn't the embassy, those weren't ambassadors. And that wasn't the last helicopter. But it was in those final days. And the narrative was very strong, and the image was very strong. And so they kind of got locked together. And it became an iconic image of something that wasn't fully accurate. And that image is now being used by editorial cartoonists to talk about what happened in Afghanistan. So I've got a cartoon in front of me, that is of it's a, it's a line drawing of the photograph so that the perspective is exactly the same. It's a Vietnamese, it's a Huey helicopter from from the war, the makeshift ladder is exactly the same that people who are climbing the ladder have the same luggage, it's exactly the same. And on the side of the building, it said Vietnam, and it's crossed out and underneath that says Afghanistan, and there's one person who's helping people off the top of the ladder to get them into the helicopter. And there's a little kind of speech line that comes out from him. And he says, "Next time, we'll learn our lesson next time."

Christine Malec:

Ohhhh!

JJ Hunt:

That image is really being used by cartoonists and and you know, then there are some that are, I mean, they're really, they're... they're harsh. There's no, there's no way around it. They are, some really harsh cartoons. There's one of a young woman it's mostly black and white cartoon drawing with a with one little flag in color, but it's a woman sitting in front of a grave marker. And there's a little flag planted in the ground. She's got a bouquet at her feet. And she's got a speech bubble. It just says, "Dad, about Afghanistan, dot dot, dot." Ugh. And then another one of a cartoon Joe Biden, President Biden, we've talked about his sunglasses, his aviator sunglasses, that's often how he's depicted.

Christine Malec:

Um hm.

JJ Hunt:

So he's got sunglasses on, sweat dripping down his balding head, he's leaning over to talk to a little girl who's got on a red headscarf and a green dress. And she's labeled Afghan girls. And she's holding a book that says education. And there's a speech bubble coming from Joe Biden that says, "Sorry, you're just not a vital national security concern."

Christine Malec:

Eeeeh!

JJ Hunt:

Yeah. And then there's one that saw the two Taliban members. So two men with, you know, head wraps and beards, and the vests over the tunics and the machine guns over their backs, and they're facing each other and they're laughing big smiles on their bearded faces. And one says to the other, "Dude, here's an idea. Let's follow America's example and cut back on voting rights and women's rights."

Christine Malec:

Eeeeh! Oh! Ugh.

JJ Hunt:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then the last one, that I mean, again, there's dozens and dozens of these, but there's one of a giant tree it's a huge tree. It enters at our bottom left, it exits at our upper left, it's taking over half the image, big big tree and it's labeled Afghanistan. And there's one limb that's coming off that's freshly cut, and a few feet down from that freshly cut limb is the other half of that limb and it Falling down and sitting on top of it with a saw in his hand is Joe Biden. And he's falling down his tie is in the air because he's dropping so fast. And he's got a speech bubble that says, "I'm surprised by this." That's the narrative that's, that's playing out in, in political cartoons.

Christine Malec:

That was not easy. Thank you for that. We love making this podcast. If you love hearing it, perhaps you'll consider supporting its creation and development by becoming a patron. We've set up a Patreon page to help cover the costs of putting the show together. You can contribute as a listener or as a sponsor to help ensure that accessible and entertaining journalism continues to reach our community. Visit patreon.com slash talk description to me that's pa t ar e o n.com slash talk description to me have feedback or suggestions of what you'd like to hear about here's how to get in touch with us. Our email address is talk description to [email protected] Our Facebook page is called talk description to me. Our website is talk description to me.com and you can follow us on Twitter at talk description.

Timeline
Taking the Presidential Palace
The Evacuation
Ongoing protests
Editorial Cartoons