Talk Description to Me
Talk Description to Me
Episode 103 - Virtual Reality
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
When an Oculus Quest Virtual Reality headset arrived at JJ's house, his first call was to Christine! In this, the first of three VR episodes we will air in the coming months, the pair describes the headset, the experience of donning it for the first time, and how it tricks the brain through exquisite visual detail. They then explore 360 degree videos of the natural world, and scale the side of a digital skyscraper!
Special thanks to our in-house tech consultant for their help in producing this series!
Talk description to me is Christine Malec and JJ Hunt.
Christine Malec:Hi, I'm Christine Malec.
JJ Hunt:And I'm JJ Hunt. This is talk description to me, where the visuals of current events and the world around us get hashed out in description rich conversations.
Christine Malec:Of course our podcast is about describing visual phenomenon that happened in the world. But I'm going to say right off the top, this episode is going to be the most specifically visual exclusive kind of topic we've ever covered, because we're going to talk about the Oculus, which is a virtual reality headset. And I knew someone who a couple of people who had them, and then one of JJ, one of your kids spent their their recreational money on buying one. And we both got pretty excited about talking about this. And so the reason I say it's the most visual is that VR is something that's, I think, is really in its infancy. And the focus at this moment in the technology is visual. So we're going to dig into what it is how it works, and then we're, we're gonna get a demo later, which is going to be very cool. But the essential aspect of it is, you look at stuff and you move around, and the stuff looks cool. And it's in 3D. So it's, it's intensely visual. And as a blind person, it's a zero, it's just a nothing. So, you know, we've we've talked about things before, like the northern lights, which are also exclusively visual, but you know, you could sit with someone with the Northern Lights, and you could experience a certain amount of the scale or the grandeur as it gets described. But the Oculus, it's, you're in your own little world, and it's 100% visual. So I want to set it up in that way. Because A, that's what it is. But also, it's extremely overwhelming and very, very freaking cool. So I want to set it up in that way. So that when we get to the demo, I want to enable you, JJ to just go this is so cool, because it really is it's the cutting edge of technology, which in the end will become more inclusive. And of course, there are virtual reality, things going on around accessibility and inclusion. But at this moment, and in this episode, what we're going to be talking about is the Oculus, which is in Yeah, it's exclusively visual, intensely visual, but it gives sighted people and experiences that are absolutely unique by the sounds of it and just totally wild. So JJ, I'm curious, why do you think your kid chose to spend their rec recreational money on on this specific thing?
JJ Hunt:Yeah, they saved up for several Christmases and birthdays worth of money, and they bought themselves this Oculus. I mean, it's, it's their video game player, so that, you know, they're just there in that world, the new tech there, they were excited about that. But they also connect with friends on tech. That's how they get together, they play Minecraft together, they they have lots of other games that are where there were connectivity is involved. And I think that was part of the end goal for this a couple of friends at more or less the same time got got these headsets so they can be in worlds together in virtual worlds together. I mean, all this stuff really is. Yeah, you know, I'm I'm almost 49 This is purely science fiction in right life. Right, totally.
Christine Malec:So next week, like this is the future right there.
JJ Hunt:It really is. It's so bizarre. So I think that was part of the and then and then just the games. I mean, there are interesting games that you can play and interesting experiences you can have.
Christine Malec:So can we start with a description of the unit and what it actually does?
JJ Hunt:Yeah, so the Oculus quest two is the specific unit and it's got a headset in two controllers, and all hard white plastic with black accents. Everything is very smooth, rounded edges, like high attention to detail in the modern design. You remember when we talked about SpaceX and the design? It reminds me very much the like you can almost picture the astronauts and you know, Bob and Doug in the in the SpaceX Dragon playing on these headsets they fit perfectly With the design aesthetic of SpaceX, the headset is really just like large ski goggles. And they are surprisingly light, they're not huge. It's not like a big, bulky thing sticking out in front of your face, they're only a couple of inches deep. There's a wide white strap that goes from the temples all the way around the back of the head, and then another wide white strap that goes from over the top of the head. So kind of like from between the eyes to the back of the head that connects to the band that goes around. So that's how it stays on your face. It's got a black padded seal, where the where the headset are the visor presses against your forehead and goes around your temples, under your eyes and over the bridge of your nose. And this black padded seal helps to keep the outside light outside. And then if you're looking inside the headset before you put them on, there are two, I'm gonna call them screens that are evident. And they look like very thick lenses on glasses. But they're set in plastic rims that are a good inch thick. And so that's what it looks like when you're looking into the device before you put it on. But once you put the device on, they're so close, those little screens are so close to your face, so close to your eyes, that you can't see them that you can't see that there are individual lenses in front of your face. It's black, it's like totally black, like blackout glasses until the until it clicks on. And then you are in an immersive world. And you're not seeing specific screens, you are genuinely in a space. And the controller design really quite new to me. Not a traditional joystick or shaped like remote controls or video game controllers that I've ever experienced before these are smooth, it's gonna be really tricky because it doesn't relate to and it's new enough that I can't couldn't think of anything to relate it to. So there's a smooth plastic handle that fits in the palm of your hand with an open ring on top. So even when you're looking at it, it's not intuitive to how you would even hold it. But once you are holding it, the ergonomics make a ton of sense. So okay, if you just make a fist with put in, put your thumbs up, right, so make fist and put your thumbs up, and then loosen your grip a little bit, so your fingers kind of loosen a little bit, the handle part slips into the palm of your hand held by the three bottom fingers of your loose grip. And there's a button on the inside of each controller that is operated by the middle finger. And then there's a second button that's higher up on the front of the controller that's like a trigger. So this is what your your index finger pulls, it's a trigger. And then your thumb is inside that open ring. And there's a little control pad there. And so if you tap your thumb, you're tapping your thumbs on a few small buttons, and then a very small sensitive joystick one on each controller. And that is those are movements and buttons that operate different things. That's the gripping action. And then, when you're in the world, when you're in whatever world you're in, as you move your hands you have kind of Avatar hands inside the game, that are that move about exactly where you move your hand sensors know exactly where you are in your space. And they know where your hands are relative to the headset. And so you when you move your hands in the real world, your hands are moving inside the virtual world. And I have to say, watching people use a VR headset. When you're not experiencing what they're experiencing. People look ridiculous, because you're moving around in space with this headset on and acting in goofy ways my kids kept laughing at me when I when I first put it on because I would move my whole body even though my whole body wasn't necessary. Like it's necessary to move your whole body because it it changes where your head and hands are. And that's important, okay, but I would like I would thrust my hips, which is totally useless. There's nothing about that action. But my body was responding to the environments that I was in. So you look absolutely ridiculous. Sometimes the biggest space in our house to play this game is in the living room right at the front of the house. And you push all the chairs aside, there's a big enough space that you can use the headset there. And so our kids might play there at night inside and there's a big front window that leads out onto the street. If you're walking by the house at night, when it's dark outside and the lights on inside through the window that the window lights up like a television screen. And when you see what You walk by the house, it's like one of the kids, you know, miming that they're rock climbing or like holding a fake gun and like, like blasting aliens, or flying through the International Space Station, that's where I was thrusting my hips, by the way, grabbing onto the handles on the sides of the walls of the space station, and pulling myself forward. But I would pull myself forward by thrusting my hips. So yeah, the whole thing looks from the outside. Absurd.
Christine Malec:So we have talked about a demo, are you ready to slip the goggles on and describe your way through some sea sickness?
JJ Hunt:Totally. So I'll get I'll get my kid involved so that they can, they can set me up and I'm going to switch mics because I gotta have to be, I gotta be moving around. So so I'll set that. So basically, what I have to do is I have to trace the room, trace all the walls and the where the furniture is in the room. So I can create what the VR headset will now understand to be a safe play area, confirming my boundaries. And now there are a series of I can actually see through the headset right now. So my whole the room that is around me is kind of like a grainy black and white room. That's all around me. And I've got there's there are a series of like, it's a grid of plus signs all around the room to confirm my boundary. And that looks about good to me. The headset is recording, it's filming the room around me. And I'm seeing like a television version of it. Right? Is that what's happening?
Owen:You got cameras on the outside.
JJ Hunt:Cool. Cool. I should probably note, Chris, that I have with me my in house tech consultant. Heh heh. They're not on mic, but they will, they will probably appear in the background from time to time in my in my audio here. So I have just logged on to I am in a virtual space. So this is my lobby. So I have I've logged into the lobby, which is kind of like your home screen. And because it's virtual reality, the home screen is a home room, it's just a space. And the owner of this headset, my fantastic eldest has chosen a space themed room. So this is an established room. It looks like I'm in a room a massive room that's like three or four or five times bigger than my house. And it's got a robotic arm in it, and it's got windows that look out into space station's there's some kind of nebula in this window above us. This purpley cloudy kind of Nebula, and then floating in the middle of this space is what looks like a screen like a computer screen, my Home Menu. Okay. So, Christine, here's where you tell me where do you where do you want to go? What do you want me to try? And do? Do you want me to be in space? Do you want me to? You were talking about going to like visiting a ship underwater or something? What is it that you'd like to, you know, hear descriptions of?
Christine Malec:Well, first of all, the room that you're in, you've described it as being it's pretty big. It's not something that's in your day to day experience. But in terms of visual appearance and aesthetic on a scale of one to 10? How convincing is it? How real does it look to you?
JJ Hunt:Oh, it's I mean, it's probably like an eight or nine in terms of being realistic, what it really looks like is I'm in a, I'm in the final drawing of a set for a sci fi movie. So it's just a little bit of illustrators just a little bit drawn. Because this isn't this wasn't rendered with photographs. There are versions of this that are partially rendered with photographs. But the one I'm in right now is it's an illustrated room. So it really looks like like the set of a sci fi movie like if again, it's very space XC. So lots of curved white furniture black and white aesthetic, no sharp corners, only rounded corners. And it is yeah, it's entirely convincing. And there are little tiny details as well like there are lamps and like little tiny light switches and panels and things like that there's grain in the wood floor for example. Things like that, that make it so believable cushions on the couch, with with dents in them from people having you know leaned against them, like all those details are present to make this and then and then outside the windows. Not only is there a space station but there are Little shuttles floating by and like, my depth perception tells me that they are, I don't know, hundreds of feet away. Oh, like that's how deep my depth perception is. And then again, the nebula that's beyond that. And the stars that or beyond that, like, it feels deep. Like feels massive. Yeah.
Christine Malec:So I don't want to make the motion sick too soon. But I'm, I'm more a little more interested in landscapes or waterscapes, or natural looking things rather than the game parts? Is there anything? Under watery or mountain climbing? Something like a natural landscape?
JJ Hunt:Absolutely, kiddo, what would you recommend? Let's go to a video. So that so that I can describe something that isn't an illustrated but it's a it's a video in VR.
Christine Malec:I just got really curious because JJ, I remember we've talked a couple of times about how one of the things you like about getting out of the city is kind of stretching your eyes by looking far away. So I'm imagining what if you're in I don't know, like the Rockies or you know, a virtual escape of Northern Ontario or the prairies or something doesn't look doesn't feel the same to look far away in virtual reality, we'll get there to get that's, that's one of the places I'd like to go after we have a look at some of the interior video stuff.
JJ Hunt:So now I'm in this is just a different home screen. And it's called a studio. But it really looks like I'm inside a very modern cabin in the woods. And so again, you look out, it's an illustrated space, you look out the window, and there are trees that extend through through a window that's at like floor level, and then it's a cathedral ceiling in this room. So they're in there are windows up high. So the same trees extend from one window up through the other and continue up into the sky. And there are I the floor that I'm standing on now is is like a rug, a woven green rug. And there are you know, unnatural, like rocks, it looks like, like the Canadian Shield outside lots of big rocks and boulders. And yeah, this is it's funny. This recreating nature in an illustrated way. As amazing as it is, it's not as convincing to me as creating a space age space. Because that's, by definition, it's invented. It's not real. This is supposed to be real. In my mind knows real. I've been in real mountains. I've seen real trees. So it's a bit different in that regard. All right, so within the menu, I, I find a little panel that's called apps. And I point my there's a trigger. So my controllers have like a basically what looks like a laser beam coming off of it. And I pointed at the at the apps, I go to apps and now I'm gonna go to YouTube VR. Okay, so now I'm in that dome, that delightful dome that I enjoyed too much. There's a what looks like a giant screen TV in front of me. And in there are YouTube videos accessible through this screen. Here's a Grand Canyon virtual tour. So I'm going to turn it on and if there is any audio, you'll be able to hear a little bit of it. Wow. Okay, so this is filmed all right, I'm floating right now. So this is a video it's taking me where it wants to go. And I'm flying. So my posture I have to say just changed. I was standing straight without any concern because I'm in my living room and now that I'm in this video and flying over the Grand Canyon, I bend my knees a little bit I'm I'm I've kind of gotten my posture a little as its concerned would you say oh and looking at me am I am I like trying to you know be safe with my posture Does that make sense? was immediate. So I am floating right now right along the edge of the Grand Canyon to my right is a footpath that is you know, on the on the top on the upper edge and I'm flying over trees if I turn to my left, I am now looking directly into the Grand Canyon and it is vast and so you were asking Chris about like how did my eyes feel like do they feel relaxed? My frame rate rising and I have to say i i do like I feel that I feel The relaxation in my eyes. It is it is comforting, although unnerving. So I'm going over a cliff again, I'm going right over the edge. The colors in this are a little bit muted. It feels like it's on a, an extremely bright sunny day, which washes out the colors a little bit. So it doesn't have the, it's not quite as precise as looking at a photograph. But it actually in a way is it feels more natural, because if I was standing at the edge of the Grand Canyon on a on a bright and sunny day, the colors would be a little muted, the Reds wouldn't be bright, they'd be dull, and this kind of terracotta orange in the sides of the Grand Canyon. And that's kind of what I'm in and I can turn all the way around and I can in 360, and I can look at the ground. And I can look at the sky, which is bright blue, like there's no clouds in the sky. And the only thing in this entire space that is not of a video quality is directly underneath me. There's a blurry spot. And that would be where the that's 360 camera was not able to film because there's a person standing there directly beneath that's the only thing in this entire space. That isn't perfect.
Christine Malec:And are you feeling a little queasy in the tummy now like if you say just say you bent forward at the waist just a tiny bit your your perspective would change. And then you look up like does it make you a bit queasy?
JJ Hunt:This doesn't yet make me queasy, but it makes me feel like I don't feel stable. Like I'm right here. Like I'm rocking back and forth a little bit. My knees are a little bit wobbly. Like I just don't feel because I'm kind of hovering right at the edge of the cliff right now. Oh, now I'm going down a staircase. It's funny. So I just took a step forward. The video that I'm in is moving me forward. And because a stair appeared in front of me I took a step like it just was instinctive.
Christine Malec:Can we try something underwater like a shipwreck or something?
JJ Hunt:So this is a I just clicked on one in the first this video and the first thing that came up is looks like I've got like I'm with a dive buddy. But I'm really really close to this other human this other scuba diver to close like it's unnerving. This guy's massive. Like the human that's in front of me right now is unnerving. Oh, okay. And I'm right beside the boat. And so I'm underneath so I can see the propellers of the boat. Yeah, you're too close, buddy. Okay, so I am not I skipped ahead. So I am scuba diving right now through a wreck. So I'm inside the hole of a wrecked ship. And I'm ducking, like, I'm physically ducking to be in here, there are barnacles and like coral that's grown on to the structure of this ship. So there are tons of little fish swimming all around. What's interesting, because this is this was a scuba diver who was filming this. The the movement is very much like a scuba divers movement, which is it's a little bit lurchy because you only move forward when you kick or when you move your arms. And so I very much feel that. That way of moving.
Christine Malec:Is it hard not to imitate it with your body?
JJ Hunt:Absolutely. It's difficult. Okay, I'm going to try...
Christine Malec:Don't You don't want to just lie on the floor and start flipping and stuff.
JJ Hunt:Yeah, I want I want to be I want to be on my belly. Like I want to be laying down in a swimming posture. And I'm trying my best to just stand still and not physically react to what I'm seeing and it's a it's a challenge it's a challenge because it's my brain is being told that I'm somewhere else want me to climb a cliff? Yes so I've got I can climb in the Alps I can climb through like looks like Halong Bay or something so rock formations in in the water in the ocean, a canyon like the Grand Canyon a city or the north which it looks like is the far north
Christine Malec:I kind of want to hear them all but can you flick into the city and see what what happens?
JJ Hunt:So because I've got these handsets in my hand I actually physically have to grip to climb Oh, oh, okay. You slightly okay. Oh, yeah. So I'm being repositioned. I am right now on a balcony with no railings and I got to step forward and it is a long way down it says leaves move back to my original position. Because I, I wanted to peek over the edge. So what I'm doing now is I'm using my trigger finger to climb up the building there are I'm gonna rock. This is a brick building. And I actually physically have to reach out and use my avatar hands. Remember I mentioned that there are these like the floating hands inside the game? Yes, right now these floating hands inside the game look like rock climbing gloves. And so I reach up and grab things that I can grab on to. So there are rock, like bricks that are sticking out a little bit from this building. And so I can grab onto them. And I'm working my way around the building. Oh, okay. That window just closed. And I can't Oh, I don't know what I'm going to grab on to. There we go. Okay, I got it. I am kind of between two buildings. I don't know how many stories up. I am 30. So I'm going to try falling just to see what happens. So I'm gonna let go here. Is that all they do? Okay. Okay, very quickly. All right. So I fell it But amazingly, it didn't take me all the way to the floor. It didn't take me all the way to the ground. Now interestingly, when I if I because I am reaching, like, physically, my actual body is reaching in order to get the next click. And if I reach too far out of my, my safe zone that has been identified by that headset as being, you know what, there's no, there's no wall, there's no piece of furniture. If I go beyond that, I kind of get a, I get a little warning. And a grid comes up to basically say, no, no, no, you've gone You're too close to an actual wall. And and so warns me. So I'm now right at the edge of a corner of the building, I've climbed my way to the corner of the building. And I can now see I'm right beside a giant billboard. And I can see if I look around, way out over the city again, like there were some windmills in the distance, there are some birds flying really close to the top of this building.
Christine Malec:So I'd like to separate two kinds of I have a similar question, but in two parts. So again, I want to rating of how realistic is it but in two senses one is the the aesthetic that you're looking at the images that you're seeing, but the second way is the visceral feeling of anxiety that your fight or flight instincts are kicking in because you're in a dangerous situation. So both of those things, how would you rate the realism right now?
JJ Hunt:The it's got to be an eight nine in terms of the design. Oh, a bird just whipped right past me. And that was like literally went right in front of my face. And Jen. So in that sense, yes. Like I my body buys this, my body is believing that I am in a slightly dangerous situation. And in so my knees are buckled accordingly. Like I genuinely, I'm going to see what happens. I'm going to try and throw myself. I'm holding on to the wall with one hand and I'm going to try and throw myself onto a very narrow balcony ledge and see what happens. Okay, here we go. Oh, okay. Oh, no, no. Oh. All right. So for a second, I thought I'd stuck the landing. And then I hadn't and I fell.
Christine Malec:We love making this podcast. If you love hearing it, perhaps you'll consider supporting its creation and development by becoming a patron. We've set up a Patreon page to help cover the costs of putting the show together. You can contribute as a listener or as a sponsor to help ensure that accessible and entertaining journalism continues to reach our community. Visit patreon.com/talk Description To me that's P A T R e o n.com/talk description to me have feedback or suggestions of what you'd like to hear about here's how to get in touch with us. Our email address is talk description to me@gmail.com. Our Facebook page is called Talk description to me. Our website is talk description to me.com and you can follow us on Twitter at talk Description.